Decisions Decisions (Jacksonville University/DCA + Embry Riddle)

[hazeof3dd]

Hey all, haven't posted here in a long time. Since I first joined I have made a visit to Jacksonville University and Embry Riddle Aeronautical University (Daytona Beach). Now, reading these forums I hear a lot of bad things about Delta Connection Acadamy and JU. The impression I got on my visit (of both the university and the DCA facility) was that of a very deticated group, that has a lot to offer me. Their statistics of how soon students get hired by airlines (98% within 6 months of graduation), the benefits you get on Delta once u get hired as a instructor (Jo Stone, the director of the Aviation Program at JU said that she's only ever seen 2 not get hired, and thats because they really didn't want it). A bonus was that I loved the city of Jacksonville, and the campus was VERY nice. Now, when I visited Embry-Riddle, it seemed like, they had the fancy shiney equipment, but in the end it wasn't going to get me any farther than I could get at JU (which is a little cheaper). I also hated Daytona Beach . Anyways, with all this bad talk about DCA, and all the positive things I saw/heard on my visit (talked to a student that wasn't there to sell me anything, just gave us straight answers), I am a little lost. Jacksonville has offered me $10,000 a year (not officially, just based on my SAT scores and current GPA), and I have basically put them at number 1 on my list. I have another visit to both schools scheduled at the end of October, just before I apply, which will also give me a chance to catch the airshow at DAB. I plan to ask Jo Stone (VERY nice person, don't know if any of you have met her), what happens if Delta itself goes into Chap 11, or even in the unlikely event that it goes under. But I would appreciate any input you have here. (based on facts please, no "DCA sucks, stay away" as that does me no good). Sorry for the long post. I'll make a little list here to describe the benefits that I have seen at JU:

-Major includes Flight Operations AND Airline Management
-Minor can be something non-aviation related (I have an interest in their Marine Bio program that is supposed to be very good)
-It's relatively inexpensive (collegeboard.com puts tuition at just under $20,000/year. Flight costs estimated at an additional $6,000/semester, room and board estimated at $6,000/year.
-Aviation is the largest major at the school, and the aviation students are allowed to move into the "aviation community" apartments their sophomore year
-The automatic job interview as a flight instructor, which gives you the free family flights on Delta, and 10 buddy passes/year, which I have been told almost everyone gets
-The interview with the regional airline (one of the flight instructors told me that (cant remember if it was all or some) of the Delta regionals are doing quite well and have never furloughed a pilot
-Not to mention I loved the city, and everyone seemed very nice (hey, i find that to be very important). I seemed like my visit was important to the people at Jacksonville, where at Embry-Riddle I was just another perspective student.

Again, sorry for the length

[hazeof3dd]

forgot to mention, flight training costs (the $6,000/semester) end when you are hired as a flight instructor.

Also, I didn't say much about Embry-Riddle because, to be honest, and I think you may have gotten this feeling from my post, they didn't seem like they had a whole lot to offer me, and I wouldn't really have a good time (Which is very important) attending their university.

At this point I plan on applying to Jacksonville, ERAU, UND, FIT, St Louis University, and whatever other aviation colleges I stumble upon. But for now, Jacksonville remains my top choice. My GPA isn't great (2.75, starting senior year on thursday). But with my SAT scores (1200 on the old SAT), Jo Stone told me I would have a fairly easy time getting accepted, and they would give me money. So we shall see what happens. But again, your informed opinons will be greatly appreciated.

[SeanA]

hey!

I was in love with JU the first time I went to visit, Jo Stone is a really really nice lady. I graduated in June, for some reason I still have decided where I am going to go, I think im going to go to the Broward community college they also have the program with the Delta conenction academy, Reason I am choosing at starting at a 2 year, is its MUCH cheaper, and will also allow me to have a job to build up some extra money. I plan on transfering to a 4 year school after and while im working on my bachelors, flight instruct at the same time to build up hours!

good luck, let me know how it goes.

sean

[DE727UPS]

"I plan to ask Jo Stone (VERY nice person, don't know if any of you have met her), what happens if Delta itself goes into Chap 11"

Ask her if the sale of ASA to Skywest in any way impacts the "guaranteed interview".

[hazeof3dd]

[ QUOTE ]
hey!

I was in love with JU the first time I went to visit, Jo Stone is a really really nice lady. I graduated in June, for some reason I still have decided where I am going to go, I think im going to go to the Broward community college they also have the program with the Delta conenction academy, Reason I am choosing at starting at a 2 year, is its MUCH cheaper, and will also allow me to have a job to build up some extra money. I plan on transfering to a 4 year school after and while im working on my bachelors, flight instruct at the same time to build up hours!

good luck, let me know how it goes.

sean

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Broward, thats in Mass, right? I refuse to stay in New England (lived in Connecticut all my life) I'm really tired of living here so Mass wouldn't be my favorite place to go. Glad I'm not the only one who loved JU. Good luck to ya, sounds like you've got a good plan going.

[hazeof3dd]

[ QUOTE ]
"I plan to ask Jo Stone (VERY nice person, don't know if any of you have met her), what happens if Delta itself goes into Chap 11"

Ask her if the sale of ASA to Skywest in any way impacts the "guaranteed interview".

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I'll make sure to ask her about numerous scenarios to get all the bases covered.

[jaxpilot]

Be advised that while Jo Stone is a nice lady, she is there to talk up the place and boost enrollment. The students that give you the tours of the airport also recieve compensation for doing that, so they have an interest as well. JU seemed alright for me too but midway through my first semester I was fed up with the crappy dorms and food, having to park and walk half a mile to your dorm and it seemed as if my flight money was evaporating out of thin air because the charges really add up fast and no one there finishes on budget. You will need to plan for at least $10,000 per semester for flight funds if you want to finish training before your senior year and instruct while in school. Really and I mean REALLY look at this website and figure out if you really need to spend all that money at DCA and a private college. I dont know you or your parents financial background, but its hard to look at the bright side there when you finish your PPL $3,000 over budget (the norm) and every loan you take out is adding up to what you have to pay when you graduate and are a first officer making $20k a year. I guess if your parents are rich and going to pay for it all, then you could go where you want and have no worries but that wasnt my situation. I am glad I found this website and left the program before it was too late. Your going to hear this from a lot of people before its over but if the military is not for you, then your best bet for a civilian aviation career is a 4 year degree in something non aviation at a state college and then do your ratings at an FBO or ATP/Ari-Ben Aviator. Good luck and I hope you dont make the same mistake that I did.

[hazeof3dd]

[ QUOTE ]
Be advised that while Jo Stone is a nice lady, she is there to talk up the place and boost enrollment. The students that give you the tours of the airport also recieve compensation for doing that, so they have an interest as well. JU seemed alright for me too but midway through my first semester I was fed up with the crappy dorms and food, having to park and walk half a mile to your dorm and it seemed as if my flight money was evaporating out of thin air because the charges really add up fast and no one there finishes on budget. You will need to plan for at least $10,000 per semester for flight funds if you want to finish training before your senior year and instruct while in school. Really and I mean REALLY look at this website and figure out if you really need to spend all that money at DCA and a private college. I dont know you or your parents financial background, but its hard to look at the bright side there when you finish your PPL $3,000 over budget (the norm) and every loan you take out is adding up to what you have to pay when you graduate and are a first officer making $20k a year. I guess if your parents are rich and going to pay for it all, then you could go where you want and have no worries but that wasnt my situation. I am glad I found this website and left the program before it was too late. Your going to hear this from a lot of people before its over but if the military is not for you, then your best bet for a civilian aviation career is a 4 year degree in something non aviation at a state college and then do your ratings at an FBO or ATP/Ari-Ben Aviator. Good luck and I hope you dont make the same mistake that I did.

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thanks for your input, and I do definitly realize that they are all there to talk up everything, and i take that into consideration. While my family isn't rich and can't pay for everything, I have a lot of money that other relatives have put in stocks for me, and i'm expecting to be recieving some large amounts of money in scholarship form. Well, we'll see!

[montanapilot]

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Their statistics of how soon students get hired by airlines (98% within 6 months of graduation),

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you only "graduate" if you are hired there as an instructor. If they dont need instructors then you dont graduate therefore no "guaranteed interview". Its quite deceptive.

[hazeof3dd]

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Their statistics of how soon students get hired by airlines (98% within 6 months of graduation),

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you only "graduate" if you are hired there as an instructor. If they dont need instructors then you dont graduate therefore no "guaranteed interview". Its quite deceptive.

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well i was told that she's only ever seen 2 people not get hired as an instructor, and that was because they didn't want it, so in theory i should be covered lol

[jaxpilot]

wrong answer, I personally know 3 guys in Jacksonville (not nearly as many students as Sanford) that did not get hired, there is definitely more than that. I guess they were good enough to pass DCA's CFI checkride (they have examining authority) but not good enough to be hired... sucks for them I guess, but they all found jobs instructing at smaller schools except that the students they teach are paying 1/3 the cost for training that the instructor paid at DCA.

The marketing types tend to forget that little tidbit, sweep it under the rug because it does happen and if potential students knew the risk they would not sign up.

[moxiepilot]

Haze - I just wanted to put my drop in the bucket on my thoughts. When I was looking into colleges I thought I knew enough to have the big picture.

Let me just say that I'm twice as old now and I still don't always have a big picture and I still make mistakes. All I'm trying to say is that even with the best intentions and asking all the right questions everybody, at each school you look at has more experience than you selling off their product.

Their product is to take your money, and they are good at it so - hopefully these thoughts will help you as you search for your answers....


[ QUOTE ]
The impression I got on my visit (of both the university and the DCA facility) was that of a very deticated group, that has a lot to offer me. Their statistics of how soon students get hired by airlines (98% within 6 months of graduation), the benefits you get on Delta once u get hired as a instructor (Jo Stone, the director of the Aviation Program at JU said that she's only ever seen 2 not get hired, and thats because they really didn't want it).

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the trick on that one. 98% is a half truth. By the time students get through the DCA program to CFI/CFII/MEI 90% have dropped out. However after that point most are hired on as an instructor (which now technically becomes an employee of an airline as an instructor). The reason it can be done is the way tax laws are set up. Companies become step children of other companies. It's like me saying I'm related to Kevin Bacon. I'd bet you I can find where my great (x30) grandma slept with Kevin Bacon's great (x30) grandpa. I could do it.... sorry I digress.

Anyplace that tells you over x% get hired are selling you an infomercial. I like saying prove it. Most try to run around the answer.


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A bonus was that I loved the city of Jacksonville, and the campus was VERY nice. Now, when I visited Embry-Riddle, it seemed like, they had the fancy shiney equipment, but in the end it wasn't going to get me any farther than I could get at JU (which is a little cheaper).

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Seeing past the bells and whistles is a good start.

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I also hated Daytona Beach .

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hey, thats not nice, but a valid reason for not going somewhere. It's kinda like moving to Pittsburgh when you don't like Pittsburgh. Why would you?

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Anyways, with all this bad talk about DCA, and all the positive things I saw/heard on my visit (talked to a student that wasn't there to sell me anything, just gave us straight answers), I am a little lost. Jacksonville has offered me $10,000 a year (not officially,

[/ QUOTE ]

The checks in the mail....


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what happens if Delta itself goes into Chap 11, or even in the unlikely event that it goes under. But I would appreciate any input you have here. (based on facts please, no "DCA sucks, stay away" as that does me no good).

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here's my thoughts on "guaranteed interview" crap. If you're good enough with the right hours you're going to get an interview. Using this as a selling point is nothing except to confuse starry eyed young pups. Let's put, for the sake of argument, my resume up to yours. All things being equal if only you and I applied to get the interview, who should get the chance? Probably the one most qualified.

Make sense? I'm not saying anything about my experience here, I'm just saying the dog that's gonna get the job is the one who is qualified.

Some dude asked on another forum (I think the ERAU one) will getting a ERAU degree help land a job? Same situation here. Going through the program isn't necessarily going to land you the job.

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I'll make a little list here to describe the benefits that I have seen at JU:

[/ QUOTE ] and here's where I get a little sarcastic, but it's all in good fun

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-Major includes Flight Operations AND Airline Management
-Minor can be something non-aviation related (I have an interest in their Marine Bio program that is supposed to be very good)

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at least they have options. let me ask you this: how many students major in non-aviation stuff? getting that idea might help clarify the what if scenerios if things don't work out as plannned
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-It's relatively inexpensive (collegeboard.com puts tuition at just under $20,000/year. Flight costs estimated at an additional $6,000/semester, room and board estimated at $6,000/year.

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$20,000/year cheap? you've got to be kiddig me. are you one of those children who isn't paying for college on your own?
Let me continue to break it down...$20k/year+$10k flight time/year (according to the more accurate assessment of flight costs from a previous post)+$5k on books & unforseen stuff (like drinking) = $35k/year x 4 years = $140,000. Let me put that another way: One Hundred Forty Thousand Dollars! Wait, wait, wait, that wasn't fair...One Hundred Forty Thousand Dollars!
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-Aviation is the largest major at the school, and the aviation students are allowed to move into the "aviation community" apartments their sophomore year

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I don't really know what that means but I think I have a good idea. What's the difference between the dorms and an aviation community apartment complex I ask? Probably less supervision to kepp yourself out of trouble. Hey theres nothihng wrong with that, but for anyplace you go to you should be able to live where you want to live at anytime - you're paying them why the hell listen to them telling you where to live. screw that.
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-The automatic job interview as a flight instructor, which gives you the free family flights on Delta, and 10 buddy passes/year, which I have been told almost everyone gets

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step right up and let the bearded lady guess your weight!

i'm not with an airline, but I think if you work for them lets say as a FO you get to fly a lot of places for free and you get 10 buddy passes. I think they're crossing the line here with a FO position and a Flight Instructor. Don't get me wrong I could be way off base here, but get that in writing, actually get the passes in hand

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-The interview with the regional airline (one of the flight instructors told me that (cant remember if it was all or some) of the Delta regionals are doing quite well and have never furloughed a pilot

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Doug? Doug? you there Doug? Can you help me here?
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-Not to mention I loved the city, and everyone seemed very nice (hey, i find that to be very important). I seemed like my visit was important to the people at Jacksonville, where at Embry-Riddle I was just another perspective student.

Again, sorry for the length

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got that warm fuzzy feeling, didn't cha? good luck

[hazeof3dd]

thanks for all the continued info/insight, ok, so its not cheap, but i have a lot of money put away just for college. Anyways, so many things to think about! lol. Noticed that Delta will supposedly by filling Chap 11 this week. Should be interesting to see what/if that causes anything to change.