Textbooks

woodreau · January 8th, 2005, 13:17

For those of you who are interested in the PACE program, here a list of textbooks that are used in the program, so in the event you're accepted and you happen to own these books, you can just bring them to Farmington instead of having to buy them again.

Aircraft Mechnical Operations
-Mesa CRJ Systems Manual (from Mesa Dispatch for $35)
-AvSoft CRJ Quick Study Guide - "Button Book"

Advanced Instrument Course
-Instrument Procedure Handbook (Jeppesen softcover book)

Multi-Engine Ground Course
-Multi-Engine Handbook (Green Jeppesen hardcover textbook)
-Baron 58 POH (www.esscoaircraft.com $130 or wait until you get here get from Mesa Dispatch for $120)
-Gleim ATP Test Prep Book (latest edition - right now 2005 edition)

Aviation Weather
-Aviation Weather (Jeppesen hardcover textbook)
-Aviation Weather Services (FAA Handbook AC something or whatever)

Other good to haves
-Also an AIM/FAR would be good. They sell the ASA AIM/FAR 2005 version here on campus. As long as it's up to date.
-Current Denver Sectional
-Jeppesen Airway Manual Express Pack Southwest. Don't have to keep it current, just get one and familiarize yourself with the approaches for Farmington, Durango, and Cortez and get intimate with the General Text pages if you're not familiar with Jepp charts.

If you can get a hold of a Baron 58 instrument panel poster and chair fly the checklists, emergency procedures, and multi-engine maneuvers procedures that they send you before you get to Farmington, it will help immensely when you get to the actual training in the simulator and the Barons. I memorized the checklists only to find that you don't have to do them in the exact order. As long as you come up with a flow and hit all the items in the checklist and then double check with the checklist after you complete the flow, then you should be okay.

Bog · January 11th, 2005, 22:21

I can't believe they make you pay for CRJ stuff. If you get hired here, you'll get it all for free anyway. Can you do PACE without taking the CRJ course?!

kellwolf · January 12th, 2005, 15:37

[ QUOTE ]
Can you do PACE without taking the CRJ course?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, cause that's pretty much what PACE is. I "inheirited" a lot of MAPD textbooks when my buddy got hired at Mesa. Curiously, he had two of everything......

woodreau · January 14th, 2005, 10:45

I just found out that I could download the CRJ Systems Manual from the course website, and then just print it out the book on my laser printer. I mean that what we had to do in the Navy for any of our tactical and technical pubs, burn out the laser printer. Cost: ream of paper $2.50, Binder $7.00.

But just finished learning and understanding the limitations section of the CRJ CFM. It took a few days.

Bog · January 15th, 2005, 13:32

Ugh. All I have to say (and have said on another thread) is DO NOT PAY FOR AN RJ COURSE. Each airline operates the things a lil bit different. An ERJ pilot from XJT would be a lil bit lost in the flows and checklists at Eagle, just as I would be lost in the flows and checklists at Comair. Do not get yourself deeper into debt when any airline will teach you all of this information FOR FREE when you get hired.

aloft · January 16th, 2005, 06:34

Where's the course website?

woodreau · January 19th, 2005, 14:19

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh. All I have to say (and have said on another thread) is DO NOT PAY FOR AN RJ COURSE.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, you don't have much of an option with PACE. It's part of the training for the PACE program. The CRJ course itself is $105 and it is Mesa specific. But I do realize that IF I get hired by Mesa I will have to go through all this training. I do think that since we're being prepped to go to Mesa, if I've already seen it once already, the second time around shouldn't be too bad. The airplane systems can't be too tremendously different.

Most of the money you pay for PACE goes towards Baron training.

For Aloft:

The course website is the college's intranet, so you need to be a student enrolled to access it.

aloft · January 20th, 2005, 01:50

[ QUOTE ]
The course website is the college's intranet, so you need to be a student enrolled to access it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or know someone who's enrolled....

Got any cool, um, "mp3 files" you wanna share?

kellwolf · January 20th, 2005, 14:47

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the money you pay for PACE goes towards Baron training.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, what about that per hour charge in the JetSim?

wheelsup · January 21st, 2005, 01:37

The RJ course is 40 hours @ $225/hr ($175 + $50 Instructor) = ~$9000

The Baron is $222/hr plus $25/hr for instructor

The Baron sim is $80/hr - not sure if that includes instructor or not.

You get about 20 hours Sim/10 Hours aircraft and 40 hours in the JetSim.

I think the bulk is the CRJ course itself, total cost for people that have their multi is about $12k. If you don't have your multi add about $2500 onto it.

Note: These numbers aren't totally firm just a quick calculation from flightcareers.com. Also, it states 20 hours sim time on the website but I could swear it was about half that (10 hours), so the cost would actually be lower.

~wheelsup

hokiepilot · January 22nd, 2005, 08:33

You only pay for the time you are in the right seat of the CRJ FTD. Baron and Baron sim cost me about 5K and CRJ FTD cost another 5K.

Bog · January 22nd, 2005, 15:55

Dang ... no-one should pay a single dime for any RJ training before getting hired. Heck, we sent home the only newhires we've had this year, and it's not looking any better for the next ... year.

aloft · January 22nd, 2005, 18:25

Eh? Furloughs at MAG?

Tazman282 · January 22nd, 2005, 19:57

After everything is said and done I am out 8500 total for the whole pace program.The Jet FTD cost is at 5150.00 total for the 40 hrs. Hope that helps a little bit.

Bog · January 22nd, 2005, 20:32

[ QUOTE ]
Eh? Furloughs at MAG?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. There's a CRJ initial class going on right now. It had 4 newhires. They were sent home because we don't need them. We're starting to unload the 1900s and those pilots will fill the vacancies created by the CR9 deliveries. We probably won't be hiring for several months.

Mr_Creepy · January 23rd, 2005, 08:53

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Eh? Furloughs at MAG?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. There's a CRJ initial class going on right now. It had 4 newhires. They were sent home because we don't need them. We're starting to unload the 1900s and those pilots will fill the vacancies created by the CR9 deliveries. We probably won't be hiring for several months.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose that's a furlough. In that case I've been "furloughed" from another airline besides Midway. I got in to an initial class and was told they overhired - they sent me home. I certainly had no recall rights though.

Do these 4 newhires have recall rights?

Bog · January 24th, 2005, 01:27

[ QUOTE ]
Do these 4 newhires have recall rights?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, hence the term furlough.

Mr_Creepy · January 24th, 2005, 07:05

[ QUOTE ]
hence the term furlough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Using the word "hence" might get you points somewhere else but not here

That was what I was asking. It is very unusual for a new hire to have recall rights until they have at least passed the systems test.

When I started at Mesa it was passing the check ride - we were not "hired" until then.

kellwolf · January 24th, 2005, 13:32

[ QUOTE ]
When I started at Mesa it was passing the check ride - we were not "hired" until then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell, working ground service at XJT you weren't technically "hired" until you passed your ramp training in IAH, a week of ramp training at your station, three weeks of ticket training in IAH, and two more weeks of station training. THEN you were hired. Then you finally get flight benefits, but still have to wait like 6 months for the insurance to kick in.......

January 8th, 2005, 13:17	#1
woodreau Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 263	Textbooks For those of you who are interested in the PACE program, here a list of textbooks that are used in the program, so in the event you're accepted and you happen to own these books, you can just bring them to Farmington instead of having to buy them again. Aircraft Mechnical Operations -Mesa CRJ Systems Manual (from Mesa Dispatch for $35) -AvSoft CRJ Quick Study Guide - "Button Book" Advanced Instrument Course -Instrument Procedure Handbook (Jeppesen softcover book) Multi-Engine Ground Course -Multi-Engine Handbook (Green Jeppesen hardcover textbook) -Baron 58 POH (www.esscoaircraft.com $130 or wait until you get here get from Mesa Dispatch for $120) -Gleim ATP Test Prep Book (latest edition - right now 2005 edition) Aviation Weather -Aviation Weather (Jeppesen hardcover textbook) -Aviation Weather Services (FAA Handbook AC something or whatever) Other good to haves -Also an AIM/FAR would be good. They sell the ASA AIM/FAR 2005 version here on campus. As long as it's up to date. -Current Denver Sectional -Jeppesen Airway Manual Express Pack Southwest. Don't have to keep it current, just get one and familiarize yourself with the approaches for Farmington, Durango, and Cortez and get intimate with the General Text pages if you're not familiar with Jepp charts. If you can get a hold of a Baron 58 instrument panel poster and chair fly the checklists, emergency procedures, and multi-engine maneuvers procedures that they send you before you get to Farmington, it will help immensely when you get to the actual training in the simulator and the Barons. I memorized the checklists only to find that you don't have to do them in the exact order. As long as you come up with a flow and hit all the items in the checklist and then double check with the checklist after you complete the flow, then you should be okay.

January 11th, 2005, 22:21	#2
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,164	Re: Textbooks I can't believe they make you pay for CRJ stuff. If you get hired here, you'll get it all for free anyway. Can you do PACE without taking the CRJ course?!

January 12th, 2005, 15:37	#3
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,667	Re: Textbooks [ QUOTE ] Can you do PACE without taking the CRJ course?! [/ QUOTE ] Nope, cause that's pretty much what PACE is. I "inheirited" a lot of MAPD textbooks when my buddy got hired at Mesa. Curiously, he had two of everything......

January 14th, 2005, 10:45	#4
woodreau Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 263	Re: Textbooks I just found out that I could download the CRJ Systems Manual from the course website, and then just print it out the book on my laser printer. I mean that what we had to do in the Navy for any of our tactical and technical pubs, burn out the laser printer. Cost: ream of paper $2.50, Binder $7.00. But just finished learning and understanding the limitations section of the CRJ CFM. It took a few days.

January 15th, 2005, 13:32	#5
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,164	Re: Textbooks Ugh. All I have to say (and have said on another thread) is DO NOT PAY FOR AN RJ COURSE. Each airline operates the things a lil bit different. An ERJ pilot from XJT would be a lil bit lost in the flows and checklists at Eagle, just as I would be lost in the flows and checklists at Comair. Do not get yourself deeper into debt when any airline will teach you all of this information FOR FREE when you get hired.

January 16th, 2005, 06:34	#6
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 6,849	Re: Textbooks Where's the course website?

January 19th, 2005, 14:19	#7
woodreau Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 263	Re: Textbooks [ QUOTE ] Ugh. All I have to say (and have said on another thread) is DO NOT PAY FOR AN RJ COURSE. [/ QUOTE ] Unfortunately, you don't have much of an option with PACE. It's part of the training for the PACE program. The CRJ course itself is $105 and it is Mesa specific. But I do realize that IF I get hired by Mesa I will have to go through all this training. I do think that since we're being prepped to go to Mesa, if I've already seen it once already, the second time around shouldn't be too bad. The airplane systems can't be too tremendously different. Most of the money you pay for PACE goes towards Baron training. For Aloft: The course website is the college's intranet, so you need to be a student enrolled to access it.

January 20th, 2005, 01:50	#8
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 6,849	Re: Textbooks [ QUOTE ] The course website is the college's intranet, so you need to be a student enrolled to access it. [/ QUOTE ] Or know someone who's enrolled.... Got any cool, um, "mp3 files" you wanna share?

January 20th, 2005, 14:47	#9
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,667	Re: Textbooks [ QUOTE ] Most of the money you pay for PACE goes towards Baron training. [/ QUOTE ] Um, what about that per hour charge in the JetSim?

January 21st, 2005, 01:37	#10
wheelsup Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: _ Posts: 5,356	Re: Textbooks The RJ course is 40 hours @ $225/hr ($175 + $50 Instructor) = ~$9000 The Baron is $222/hr plus $25/hr for instructor The Baron sim is $80/hr - not sure if that includes instructor or not. You get about 20 hours Sim/10 Hours aircraft and 40 hours in the JetSim. I think the bulk is the CRJ course itself, total cost for people that have their multi is about $12k. If you don't have your multi add about $2500 onto it. Note: These numbers aren't totally firm just a quick calculation from flightcareers.com. Also, it states 20 hours sim time on the website but I could swear it was about half that (10 hours), so the cost would actually be lower. ~wheelsup

January 22nd, 2005, 08:33	#11
hokiepilot Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 43	Re: Textbooks You only pay for the time you are in the right seat of the CRJ FTD. Baron and Baron sim cost me about 5K and CRJ FTD cost another 5K.

January 22nd, 2005, 15:55	#12
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,164	Re: Textbooks Dang ... no-one should pay a single dime for any RJ training before getting hired. Heck, we sent home the only newhires we've had this year, and it's not looking any better for the next ... year.

January 22nd, 2005, 18:25	#13
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 6,849	Re: Textbooks Eh? Furloughs at MAG?

January 22nd, 2005, 19:57	#14
Tazman282 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 101	Re: Textbooks After everything is said and done I am out 8500 total for the whole pace program.The Jet FTD cost is at 5150.00 total for the 40 hrs. Hope that helps a little bit.

January 22nd, 2005, 20:32	#15
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,164	Re: Textbooks [ QUOTE ] Eh? Furloughs at MAG? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. There's a CRJ initial class going on right now. It had 4 newhires. They were sent home because we don't need them. We're starting to unload the 1900s and those pilots will fill the vacancies created by the CR9 deliveries. We probably won't be hiring for several months.

January 23rd, 2005, 08:53	#16
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,807	Re: Textbooks [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Eh? Furloughs at MAG? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. There's a CRJ initial class going on right now. It had 4 newhires. They were sent home because we don't need them. We're starting to unload the 1900s and those pilots will fill the vacancies created by the CR9 deliveries. We probably won't be hiring for several months. [/ QUOTE ] I suppose that's a furlough. In that case I've been "furloughed" from another airline besides Midway. I got in to an initial class and was told they overhired - they sent me home. I certainly had no recall rights though. Do these 4 newhires have recall rights?

January 24th, 2005, 01:27	#17
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,164	Re: Textbooks [ QUOTE ] Do these 4 newhires have recall rights? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, hence the term furlough.

January 24th, 2005, 07:05	#18
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,807	Re: Textbooks [ QUOTE ] hence the term furlough. [/ QUOTE ] Using the word "hence" might get you points somewhere else but not here That was what I was asking. It is very unusual for a new hire to have recall rights until they have at least passed the systems test. When I started at Mesa it was passing the check ride - we were not "hired" until then.

January 24th, 2005, 13:32	#19
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,667	Re: Textbooks [ QUOTE ] When I started at Mesa it was passing the check ride - we were not "hired" until then. [/ QUOTE ] Hell, working ground service at XJT you weren't technically "hired" until you passed your ramp training in IAH, a week of ramp training at your station, three weeks of ticket training in IAH, and two more weeks of station training. THEN you were hired. Then you finally get flight benefits, but still have to wait like 6 months for the insurance to kick in.......

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