failed com single add-on

[ElyJs]

Well today I failed my single engine add-on. I am pretty disappointed right now but will hopefully get a chance to fix it up before the weekend. I had strong crosswinds on runway 8-26 (150 16g28). Took off soft field no problem maintained strong slip and almost full airelon. Went and performed chandelles and lazy eights no problem. Then went to do a steep spiral. Winds aloft were 30-35 knots and I did not maintain my point as well as I could have but passed satisfactory. Eights around pylons I pitched down and up a ton to complete the maneuver. Went back did shortfield and soft field (which was a little crazy with such a strong crosswind. I had used 20 degrees flaps for these landings (big no-no in strong gusty crosswinds). On the next soft field take-off I forgot to take out 10 flaps until I was about 600 feet turning crosswind. Power off precision I turned left base very early knowing my base leg was gonna be really slow with a 30+ headwind. I was slipping hard right rudder left airelon right until base then I started to setup for my slip to landing and skidded the base to final (another big no-no). I was still high so I added some flaps. No power flaps and a little bit or airelon jockeying. I landed in the right spot but caught a gust of wind that momentairly caught right wing. I was now full right airelon right tire on the ground. So failed the checkride. The conditions were difficult which served as a distraction exploiting my technique errors. I learned a lot on this checkride and failed it not because of bad winds or anything else....I just messed up. Fix it this weekend!

-Jason

[Crockrocket94]

It sounds like you have the right mentality. Although those winds sound pretty vicious for a single engine add. You've got balls trying to do it in those winds, but it seems like you only have to redo some of the landings, so it should be pretty straitforward.

Good luck on the retake. I know how ya feel, i was there with the Instrument.

[meyers9163]

So sounds like you made it through the entire ride, where did he/she fail you? Other then I didnt think you were allowed putting 30 flaps in and or slipping on the power off 180?

[ElyJs]

Well I shouldn't have used any flaps with the winds as strong as they were. The upwind wing with the flap down catches that much more of the crosswind while the downwind wing effectiveness is decreased. Also with the slip required to get the plane headed straight down the runway (3/4 of the rudder) there is an incredible amount of drag and increased descent rate. That in combination with the forgetting to pull the flaps out and skidding base to final (with basically full rudder) is what failed me. If I were to do it again in those condition, all of the landings would have been zero flap and would have only slipped no skids! Also remember to pull those flaps out once the plane has established climb on soft field. Actually in hindsight I should have waited a day for this snowstorm to blow through, but what the sport in that? I was a little too overconfident thinking I owned the 172 and could land it in any winds. Truth of the matter the flaws in my technique became readily more apparent with the conditions.

-Jason

[Monty]

The important thing is that you know what you did wrong. I'm sure that you'll do fine on the next ride.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by ElyJs

Well I shouldn't have used any flaps with the winds as strong as they were. The upwind wing with the flap down catches that much more of the crosswind while the downwind wing effectiveness is decreased. Also with the slip required to get the plane headed straight down the runway (3/4 of the rudder) there is an incredible amount of drag and increased descent rate. That in combination with the forgetting to pull the flaps out and skidding base to final (with basically full rudder) is what failed me. If I were to do it again in those condition, all of the landings would have been zero flap and would have only slipped no skids! Also remember to pull those flaps out once the plane has established climb on soft field. Actually in hindsight I should have waited a day for this snowstorm to blow through, but what the sport in that? I was a little too overconfident thinking I owned the 172 and could land it in any winds. Truth of the matter the flaws in my technique became readily more apparent with the conditions.

-Jason

I can't really tell what you failed on, except for the skid.

Personally, I would have used full flaps in that situation, as long as I had adequate rudder authority to maintain alignment with the runway. The idea that flaps "catch the wind" is a poor metaphor, because the wind never strikes the flap, but flows around it. On touchdown, however, they need to come up pretty quick.

So a wing raised on touchdown? Likely would have happened flap or no flap. The increase in lift due to a horizontal gust depends on the wing's lift coefficient and that would be the same at a given airspeed. Your ability to keep the wing down would depend on aileron authority and that depends on airspeed. Usually when a wing raises, it's due to the pilots failure to apply full aileron into the wind on touchdown.

[ElyJs]

Yup Tgrayson I added a lot of right airelon to account for the wind but I should have gone to the stops immediately.

You know I really thought this was supposed to be the easy checkride, all vfr just kinda of seemed like a glorified private checkride....but I still managed to mess it up. My first failure but makes me really scared of the CFI ride.

-Jason

[ElyJs]

he touched to controls on the ground roll...automatic failure.

-Jason

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by ElyJs

Yup Tgrayson I added a lot of right airelon to account for the wind but I should have gone to the stops immediately.

You know I really thought this was supposed to be the easy checkride, all vfr just kinda of seemed like a glorified private checkride....but I still managed to mess it up. My first failure but makes me really scared of the CFI ride.

-Jason

You showed a lot of guts to take the checkride in these conditions. It's all I can do to drag students into the air when the wind is like that. Even CFI students.

Regarding the skidding turn: I've run into that problem when I've shown students about slipping turns. They will occasionally get confused and do a skidding turn. I've even had post-CFI students do that. Not dangerous unless you stall, but still, something to be avoided. I do not criticize an examiner for dinging you on that.

It's a shame that we only get "pass/fail" on checkrides because that often doesn't truly reflect the candidate's performance. Pilots who are not skillful can pass, and the skillful can fail, so beware of reading too much into the pink slip.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by ElyJs

he touched to controls on the ground roll...automatic failure.
-Jason

Oh, gotcha.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

I didn't think you were allowed putting 30 flaps in and or slipping on the power off 180?

Nothing wrong with either of those things. Examiners often won't let you take flaps out once you put them in, which I disagree with.

[nosehair]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

Examiners often won't let you take flaps out once you put them in, which I disagree with.

Care to elaborate?

I wouldn't bring flaps back up in the NORMAL situation.

NORMALLY, when you put full flaps down, you are within 3 to 600 feet of the ground, and a flap retraction would cause a steeper descent before it extended your glide. Maybe you might have extensive experience doing this, and you know where the cut-off point is in your airplane, but as an Examiner doing an evaluation with an unknown applicant in a relatively unfamiliar airplane, when you deviate from the norm....

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by nosehair

cause a steeper descent before it extended your glide...

Assuming you didn't increase your AOA to compensate. I've raised flaps from 40 to 0 in ground effect (on purpose) without losing altitude, so it all depends on technique.

Still, as you know, that last notch of flaps is mostly drag, particuarly if there is a 40 degree setting. I'd guestimate that as long as you had at least 100 ft of altitude, moving the flap from 30 to 20 would improve your range quite a bit and compensate for planning errors.

[blee256]

Dont get too down about it. I thought the Commercial SE was the hardest checkride. I doubt I would pass if I had to do it again. Actually I KNOW i wouldnt pass.

you'll be fine. good luck

[ElyJs]

Passed landed on the numbers, 3 knot winds made it cake. Took about half an hour. Got hired by the DE to help him with some part time work (non-flying office position).

-Jason

CMEL/CSEL/IR

[meyers9163]

Sweet dude mine is scheduled here in the next two weeks! I cannot wait to get it done and move onto fully CFI stuff!

[AmazingPilot]

Originally Posted by ElyJs

Well today I failed my single engine add-on. I am pretty disappointed right now but will hopefully get a chance to fix it up before the weekend. I had strong crosswinds on runway 8-26 (150 16g28). Took off soft field no problem maintained strong slip and almost full airelon. Went and performed chandelles and lazy eights no problem. Then went to do a steep spiral. Winds aloft were 30-35 knots and I did not maintain my point as well as I could have but passed satisfactory. Eights around pylons I pitched down and up a ton to complete the maneuver. Went back did shortfield and soft field (which was a little crazy with such a strong crosswind. I had used 20 degrees flaps for these landings (big no-no in strong gusty crosswinds). On the next soft field take-off I forgot to take out 10 flaps until I was about 600 feet turning crosswind. Power off precision I turned left base very early knowing my base leg was gonna be really slow with a 30+ headwind. I was slipping hard right rudder left airelon right until base then I started to setup for my slip to landing and skidded the base to final (another big no-no). I was still high so I added some flaps. No power flaps and a little bit or airelon jockeying. I landed in the right spot but caught a gust of wind that momentairly caught right wing. I was now full right airelon right tire on the ground. So failed the checkride. The conditions were difficult which served as a distraction exploiting my technique errors. I learned a lot on this checkride and failed it not because of bad winds or anything else....I just messed up. Fix it this weekend!

-Jason

Hey man don't let it get you down, I did some flying out in the western rockies and to say the least its a real eye opener.
Learning in Colorado can't be the easiest of enviroments, but your ticket will mean alot more when you get. Best of luck in the future buddy

[soonerpilot06]

I like your attitude about being able to handle any winds. Confidence is important to safety. However, a checkride is a test and you should make it as easy on you as possible. Have fun tackling the challenging winds after you have your ticket. As you were describing, I bet those eights on pylons were a pain in the butt with that 28kt gust. Congratulations on getting it done!

[Italianaviator]

I know what you went through man. I had my commercial check ride this morning and we had 50kts winds from the North at 3000' and a 22 knot crosswind for my landings and 180's. He said I had failed because I exited on the wrong heading on my steep spirals. Then I said doesn't PTS state that I can do steep turns or steep spirals, since I had already done perfect steep turns earlier in the ride. He looked at the PTS and said yeah your right, ok we'll continue. Once I heard that, I knew I had to do everything else perfect but just knowing the PTS saved my butt and I passed.

[soonerpilot06]

Originally Posted by Italianaviator

Then I said doesn't PTS state that I can do steep turns or steep spirals, since I had already done perfect steep turns earlier in the ride. He looked at the PTS and said yeah your right, ok we'll continue. Once I heard that, I knew I had to do everything else perfect but just knowing the PTS saved my butt and I passed.

I'd say you got lucky on that one my friend. It does say that you may substitute steep turns for steep spirals, but you shouldn't be able to substitute just because you messed up on one of them. You are supposed to be able to do any of them to standards. Congrats to you anyway!