CFI with "No flying at night restriction"

[stl]

Okay, i've read a bunch about the color vision testing and ways to scrape through, but, I was wondering :

Question: If someone wanted to just be a CFi and did not want to get into the airlines, would getting a "No flying at night restriction" be a necessarily "bad thing" in terms of getting hired as a instructor?

What could be the long term career implications of this?

[SFCC/UND]

I don't think getting a CFI will be good for ya, since private pilots need some night time. But you could still do flight reviews. I would recommend getting your CFII and your MEI because you don't have to do any night flying.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

Originally Posted by SFCC/UND

I don't think getting a CFI will be good for ya, since private pilots need some night time. But you could still do flight reviews. I would recommend getting your CFII and your MEI because you don't have to do any night flying.

He could just work with another instructor to take students for any night flights. Bigger question is how do you get the commercial if you can't fly at night? Can you skip the night solo flight experience requirements for the commercial?

[HVYMETALDRVR]

I don't know your personal situation, but did you try to take some extra color vision tests and maybe get a Statement Of Demonstrated Ability (SODA)?

I'm also colorblind and received one when I started flying back in 2001. A few years later I actually misplaced my medical certificate and got a copy from the FAA. They were very cordial and actually told me I no longer need to even carry the SODA. My AME is familiar with my situation and gives me the Isihara color test knowing I won't pass it, but he gives me a "spot check" of colors and signs me off. This is one of the few areas the FAA seems very lenient...

[MikeOH58]

One of my students had a color deficiency, and was able to pass his medical by taking the Fansworth Lantern Color Vision Test. Another friend with a color deficiency says he went to the FSDO and had light gun signals shot at him...Don't know if there is any truth to that, but those are two options....

For a private pilot candidate, the student needs to log a minimum of 3 hours of night flight, with a dual night xc of greater than 100nm. I don't see why this couldn't be done with another instructor.

[mshunter]

Originally Posted by Minnesota_Flyer

He could just work with another instructor to take students for any night flights. Bigger question is how do you get the commercial if you can't fly at night? Can you skip the night solo flight experience requirements for the commercial?

Read an interperit the regs carefully. You don't have to have the night necessarly solo. If you do the Multi Comm first, then add the single, the night time must only be performing duties of PIC, 61.129 (b)(4)(i).

[stl]

Originally Posted by mshunter

Read an interperit the regs carefully. You don't have to have the night necessarly solo. If you do the Multi Comm first, then add the single, the night time must only be performing duties of PIC, 61.129 (b)(4)(i).

So here is 61.129 (b)(4)

(4) 10 hours of solo flight time in a multiengine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized instructor (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement in paragraph (b)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least--

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight with a traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

So the conclusion is that instead learning the basics in a single, and then going to multi-engine, I do the opposite, i.e. start with a multi-engine and then get the single rating later? Is that right?

Also, I'm assuming that this applies to Part 61 only?

[stl]

Originally Posted by SFCC/UND

I don't think getting a CFI will be good for ya, since private pilots need some night time. But you could still do flight reviews. I would recommend getting your CFII and your MEI because you don't have to do any night flying.

If I get the CFII and MEI, would the flight school hiring me have a problem with the 'night restriction'? I mean could it be a cause for rejection in terms of employment?

[mshunter]

Originally Posted by stl

So here is 61.129 (b)(4)

(4) 10 hours of solo flight time in a multiengine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized instructor (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement in paragraph (b)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least--

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight with a traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

So the conclusion is that instead learning the basics in a single, and then going to multi-engine, I do the opposite, i.e. start with a multi-engine and then get the single rating later? Is that right?

Also, I'm assuming that this applies to Part 61 only?

Yes, thats what I did. Due to the fact that you just have to perform the duties of PIC with the instructor in the airplane. As far as being able to get a job as a CFI, this may be a problem. Have you thought about flying pipe? Or do you just want to instruct. Pipe line pilots, as far as I know, only fly during the day. And I would realy look into getting a SODA. I trained with a guy who had one. He was color blind as a dog, but passed the test and then had the restriction removed. You may have to jump through hoops, but you may have a shot at getting the restriction removed. Contact the local FSDO and start asking questions.

[stl]

Thanks for the responses.

As for the SODA, and what point in the training would you think I should try to get the restriction removed? Should I do this ASAP or wait till I get multi rating (b4 single) and am familiar with airplanes and then try, or perhaps wait longer?

What type of airplane do you do the SODA in? Do you have a choice?

[SFCC/UND]

Originally Posted by stl

If I get the CFII and MEI, would the flight school hiring me have a problem with the 'night restriction'? I mean could it be a cause for rejection in terms of employment?

I don't know, I never had this problem before. Make sure you ask before you get the job. But there are schools like Riverside flight center that will hire CFII for only the instrument program and they don't do night stuff.

[matt152]

Originally Posted by stl

Thanks for the responses.

As for the SODA, and what point in the training would you think I should try to get the restriction removed? Should I do this ASAP or wait till I get multi rating (b4 single) and am familiar with airplanes and then try, or perhaps wait longer?

What type of airplane do you do the SODA in? Do you have a choice?

In order to get a color deficiency restriction removed from class 2, you will need to perform a Medical Flight Test with an FAA inspector.

Search around on the site, there are several lengthy threads which discuss this issue.

I would try to get it done as soon as possible. Personally, I would not want to go through all of my training to find out later on that this is going to be an issue that would stop me.

As for the airplane, it is whatever you provide for the flight test.

[SFCC/UND]

Read this:


(Preamble to the 1997 Part 61 revision Final Rule - Federal Register: April 4, 1997 (Volume 62, Number 65), Page 16220-16269 at Page 16242):

==============================
With respect to the holding of medical certificates by a flight instructor, the FAA has determined that the compensation a certificated flight instructor receives for flight instruction is not compensation for piloting the aircraft, but rather is compensation for the instruction. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and is receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is only exercising the privileges of a private pilot. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is not carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire, nor is he or she, for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an aircraft. Therefore, because a certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and is receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is exercising the privileges of a private pilot, he or she only needs to hold a third-class medical certificate. In this same regard, the FAA has determined that a certificated flight instructor on board an aircraft for the purpose of providing flight instruction, who does not act as pilot in command or function as a required flight crewmember, is not performing or exercising pilot privileges that would require him or her to possess a valid medical certificate under the FARs.

[matt152]

Ok. So you can CFI with a 3rd class medical.

Would you be able to get hired at a flight school with just a third class? I can't say for all, but not at the one I work at. That certainly does not rule out freelancing.

I guess you could even instruct at night, so long as you are not PIC.

[mshunter]

Two things:

#1: SODA ASAP. Why not try to get it removed not now, but right now?

#2: As the flight instructor, you are the PIC. As such, if you have the restriction, "NO NIGHT FLYING", then no night flying. You are only able to log PIC in two cases, either rated to be PIC(cat/class or a Type rate), or solo as a student. The advantage of being a flight instructor, is any time you instruct, and are rated to fly that aircraft, you log it as PIC.

[Dan64456]

What kind of color vision deficiency do you have? Did you even know about this before you took your medical exam? If not, then you are probably still a trichromat and can pass an alternate test, or take the OCVT/MFT with the FAA to get rid of the restriction... PM me if you need any more info.