fast track schools vs. local FBO for changing careers

[lolotte]

Hello,
I am looking for advice here on the best and most efficient way to change career quickly.
I am 33 years old, I have my private and IR rating, but I am not current as I stopped flying about 4 years ago!! It was hard combining my job and flying at the same time. so I stopped flying.
I am currently working as an engineer and I do not like it and I am looking at going back into flying, and becoming a professional pilot.
- First of all is 33 too old to do such a drastic change?
- What kind of path is better? fast track schools or local FBO?
I was looking at atpflightschools or flight safety academy, their programs are super fast....and expensive!
- If I choose this path, does it guarantee being hired directly in a regional airline and avoiding being CFI?
- They say that regional airline hire more pilots from those type of schools, is it true?
- As the market is bad now, it is wise to choose fast track versus the longer traditional way of learning at local FBOs ?
I am living in Dallas, TX, and went to Monarch air school which is a great school..but I am struggling making a decision on which school will best suit my needs.
So any advice are welcomed, thanks so much in advance for your answers.

Lauren

[Tld]

Hey Lauren, Welcome! I definately don't think that 33 is too old, If this is what you truly love, you have to go after it. I'm also a career changer, and thanks to the advice I have received here on JC, I decided to take the FBO route. Looking at the current state of the industry, I'm glad I didn't drop 70 grand on a fast track school. (I'm not bashing them...it just worked for me to go the FBO route.) I too was enticed by the shiny brochures, but the fast tracks only guarantee an interview. Getting the job is up to you. Reading through the threads on JC you will find those 'in the know' repeating the same thing...Airlines don't care where you get your ratings. I know you are looking for an efficient way to change your career, and I think if you are dedicated enough, you can move pretty quickly on the FBO route. However, it was also recently said, in another thread, "View your career path as a journey to acquire experience, and not just a mad rush to the right seat of a CRJ." (thanks cfii2007) Good advice. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[lolotte]

Tld, thanks for your reply and encouragements.. How long did it take for you to get your commercial and CFI?
do you know if you can avoid being an instructor with the fast track schools?
I do not mind instructing, and understand that it is a great way to learn, but I am not sure how long it takes in average to get your ~1000hours to get a job.

[BillErvin]

Originally Posted by lolotte

Tld, thanks for your reply and encouragements.. How long did it take for you to get your commercial and CFI?
do you know if you can avoid being an instructor with the fast track schools?
I do not mind instructing, and understand that it is a great way to learn, but I am not sure how long it takes in average to get your ~1000hours to get a job.

Without being a CFI the 1000 hours don't come quick, unless you can find a job flying photo survey or some other flying job that doesn't require 135 Minimums.

I don't want to start a go CFI or not war here, but it is the best way to build hours. That said, if you do it, be the best CFI you can be and don't be a "I'm here to build time, and when I get it I'm outa here, to hell with my students" CFI

Bill

[lolotte]

ok thanks for the advice.
so in summary going the fast rack route means that you still have to do CFI for a while.. correct ?

Thank you.
Lauren

[mooneyguy]

Lauren,
I dont like giving the "DO THIS" advice, because i dont know your exact situation. I cannot tell you whats best for you! I have never been through ATP, but I have heard some stories about the place. I would also suggest giving Michael at Career Pilot School (they are a JC sponsor) a call. I'm currently in their CFI class and I can say they are good people and a good school, and their Career pilot program is way cheaper than atp.
As for 33 being to old...I hope not, I just turned 40 and jumped into it with no turning back! Im a full time student until the end of this month and then plan of Instructing full time after that!
If you have any questions at all feel free to pm me and i will help you as much as I can!

[lolotte]

mooneyguy, thanks, did you do all of your training at career pilot school?
I was actually trying to stay in the Dallas area to lower housing cost as I am living here..but the school looks good there.

[mooneyguy]

Originally Posted by lolotte

mooneyguy, thanks, did you do all of your training at career pilot school?
I was actually trying to stay in the Dallas area to lower housing cost as I am living here..but the school looks good there.

No, actually I am here for just the CFI, II and MEI and I understand the location. I am actually from San Antonio. I did my IR local in SA. I went to NC for the COMM SEL and MEL and now here in KS for the CFI'S

I am very glad I wnet out of town to finish up, local just took tooo long!

[lolotte]

may I ask why the local school took too long? weather? instructors ?

Thanks.

[mooneyguy]

Originally Posted by lolotte

may I ask why the local school took too long? weather? instructors ?

Thanks.

SO many reasons...I switched from a c-150 to Mooney m20j (I owned, not rented, so that was my fault) Several issues with the CFI's, weather, maintainace. a few times we had great soft IFR, we couldnt go because he (the cfi) was not current. my IR took me almost a year. My CSEL, CMEL took me 1 week doing it out of town!
All three CFI, II, MEI will take me about 4 weeks!

I am a firm believer in accelerated courses now! there again, it worked for me, it may not be best for everyone. I would look into it as an option

[lolotte]

ok, so the fast track seems very efficient... is it a lot more expensive? isn't it too much to digest and assimilate in such short amount of time??
I have seen your blog, and congratulations on your achievements!
I've seen that you've done the spin training, is it something that all CFI training courses have ? or this is something you should do on your own? I do believe it is a very wise idea to have done a real spin to avoid killing yourself if you unintentionally go into a spin one day...

[mooneyguy]

Originally Posted by lolotte

ok, so the fast track seems very efficient... is it a lot more expensive? isn't it too much to digest and assimilate in such short amount of time??
I have seen your blog, and congratulations on your achievements!
I've seen that you've done the spin training, is it something that all CFI training courses have ? or this is something you should do on your own? I do believe it is a very wise idea to have done a real spin to avoid killing yourself if you unintentionally go into a spin one day...

Spin training is required for the cfi. I did mine with an aerobatic instructor who does spin and aerobatic training and is very good at it. He gave two hours ground instruction, and then we went up and did at least 4 spins. It was worth it! You can go out with a cfi and spin a 172 or 152 and get the spin training endorsment cheaper, but I wanted to learn a little more about it. It was arranged for me before I arrived, its cost was added into my toral price for the program.
As far as the cost of accelerated VS conventional training. It depends. compared to atp, yes you could do it cheaper with an FBO! Not all accelerated schools are $60k plus. Again look at places like CPS, or white air, or others schools like them offering accelerated training, and compare them to your local training cost. I spent almost as much money on trying to get my CSEL at home as I did going out of town to get the CSEL, and CMEL.

[upup89]

If I were you I would finish up the commercial at a local FBO but at a larger sized airport that can offer more contacts for networking. Then go to a place such as American Flyers or ATP and get the CFI and CFII in 30 days. Once you instruct for a bit you'll be ready for the regionals when they are. Good luck with everything.

[cfii2007]

Originally Posted by mooneyguy

Spin training is required for the cfi. I did mine with an aerobatic instructor who does spin and aerobatic training and is very good at it. He gave two hours ground instruction, and then we went up and did at least 4 spins. It was worth it! You can go out with a cfi and spin a 172 or 152 and get the spin training endorsment cheaper, but I wanted to learn a little more about it. It was arranged for me before I arrived, its cost was added into my toral price for the program.
As far as the cost of accelerated VS conventional training. It depends. compared to atp, yes you could do it cheaper with an FBO! Not all accelerated schools are $60k plus. Again look at places like CPS, or white air, or others schools like them offering accelerated training, and compare them to your local training cost. I spent almost as much money on trying to get my CSEL at home as I did going out of town to get the CSEL, and CMEL.

Spin endorsement...pretty scary the first time you go up and do them.

Kinda fun once you can recover and understand why it is happening.

[mooneyguy]

Originally Posted by upup89

If I were you I would finish up the commercial at a local FBO but at a larger sized airport that can offer more contacts for networking. Then go to a place such as American Flyers or ATP and get the CFI and CFII in 30 days. Once you instruct for a bit you'll be ready for the regionals when they are. Good luck with everything.

atp will NOT do your cfi initial.

[mooneyguy]

Originally Posted by cfii2007

Spin endorsement...pretty scary the first time you go up and do them.

Kinda fun once you can recover and understand why it is happening.

Yeah it was fun AFTER a couple and you start to get the hang of it. We also did a couple aileron rolls, loops, and inverted flight...it was cool!

[TexasFlyer]

It's a pretty long post by now, but you may want to read "My Journey" in the Falcon Aviation Academy forum on here. It's always one of the top three active threads under Falcon Aviation Academy, so easy to find. It's pretty much the short version of my life, but it might help you a bit if you are able to relate to my career change situation.

PS - I'm also all for accelerated programs. Even if they cost a little more, they will save you money in the long run due to their short duration. After all, if you are training full time, time is money! Every extra month you are without income when training full time, adds up very quick.

Good luck to you!

[3green]

My advice would be to take the FBO route. Getting a large loan that cost hundreds a month to pay back is painful once you start getting your first yr FO salary. Hearing horror stories of how much my fellow FO's owed monthly would make anyone cringe. There is no rush with the way the industry is going. I understand you hate your job, but at least you have one that provides roof, food and living expenses.

Ask most FO's and I bet a large number will tell you to take the route that you can pay off/do the cheapest. If that means keeping your day job to pay off your flying do it that way.

I will never understand why people are in such a rush to get to a regional(especially right now). Take your time, there is no rush to get a job that as of right now probably doesn't exist anyhow. Once your here flying 121 ops is much more enjoyable when you don't have a large loan to pay off.

3green

[learflyer]

Originally Posted by 3green

I will never understand why people are in such a rush to get to a regional(especially right now). Take your time, there is no rush to get a job that as of right now probably doesn't exist anyhow. Once your here flying 121 ops is much more enjoyable when you don't have a large loan to pay off.

3green

and why are 90 % of the career changers Engineers? do a search on this site, and it seems they all come from the same background. What is wrong with that job????Heck, i'm a 6000 hr ATP 36 yrs old with three types thinking of going back to school for engineering. Kinda funny. Passing each other on the interstate of life.

[3green]

That idea of getting an engineering degree doesn't sound bad right now. Oh well, looks like I may have to go back to my old career anyhow with displacements/furloughs coming...

Any engineers wanna trade??? I can only offer for trade low pay, no job security and alot of time away from home. Any takers??? hahaha... Engineering here I come!

[lolotte]

Thanks y'all for all of your answers and recommendations, I really appreciate it.
My ultimate goal would be to go back to Europe to fly there as I am from there and get my license here to convert it to JAA later on, that why I though going the accelerated course route. but as i need to built some time here anyway, it may be wiser to go FBO route to save money... I still don't know..
Anyway, as for engineering, yes it is paying well and give you security and all... but the office view sucks and it is really really boring in my opinion .....

[learflyer]

Right. But just remember, boring in an airplane is a good thing!

[sdfcvoh]

I would say that you should base your choice of training location on the quality and experience of the instructors.

I spent a few months (up through my CSEL) at an Academy type place. New instructors, fast paced. Now I am training at an FBO. We've got career CFI's and I'm on my own time schedule. Just noticing the different approach between that of Full-Time Career CFI's and new on-a-mission-to-get-to-the-airlines CFI's.... I wish I would have done the FBO thing all along.

Sure, I got my PPL in like 3 days, and I passed my check rides. But, I didn't learn to be a Pilot until now. If you read and take in what a lot of the more experienced pilots say on here, you'll read FBO.

I'm not saying that an 8 month fresh CFI cannot be a great instructor (cause I'm gonna be one!). What I'm saying is that with time comes wisdom, and I'd rather learn from a CFI with some gray on the tips than one with fresh ink who was trained by another CFI with fresh ink who was also trained by a CFI with fresh ink.

There are exceptions to every rule, but I'll be an FBO advocate for the rest of my life. (edit) And 33 is not too late at all - I started this when I was 35.

[wrxpilot]

Originally Posted by learflyer

and why are 90 % of the career changers Engineers? do a search on this site, and it seems they all come from the same background. What is wrong with that job????Heck, i'm a 6000 hr ATP 36 yrs old with three types thinking of going back to school for engineering. Kinda funny. Passing each other on the interstate of life.

I was just noticing that too. I'm also a former mechanical engineer that switched careers to become a professional pilot (I'm 31 now).

I really enjoyed the education in college. I've always loved learning, and it was fascinating to learn some of the higher order math, physics, fluid dynamics, etc. that you experience in college.

Once I got out into the working world of engineering, I was pretty disappointed. I'd be involved with projects that were attempting to make a part that was originally designed 20 yrs ago 2% more efficient. We'd spend all kinds of time in team meetings, and it just bored the #### out of me. Absolutely hated being inside 90% of the time too. When I did go out into the field, it wasn't all cool as I thought it'd be either. The people I worked with were mostly boring and wanted to talk about the best type of fertilizer to use on their lawn. Even the young engineers talked about this crap. Eventually I got to where I just dreaded waking up every morning, faced with another day of engineering.

Finally, the pay just isn't that amazing. It's ok, and definitely very good for just getting out of college. But it usually doesn't go up much more than 4-5%/yr, and considering how much BS you have to put up with I didn't think it was worth it.

Just over one year ago I made the leap from engineering to flying full time, and I never, ever want to go back. There are days where I'm sick of flying (like yesterday, almost 7 hrs of flight time, six legs, single pilot, IFR with thunderstorms, deferred autopilot). But I'll tell you what - what I did yesterday was WAY more interesting than any day I had in engineering.

[3green]

but the office view sucks and it is really really boring in my opinion .....

Yeah, I have to agree the view is nice... Now just imagine the view after a long duty day, doing a couple of turns, flying around in the middle of the night for a +2.5hrs leg in a not so big ERJ trying to get your destination dodging thunderstorms with a bunch of re-routes. I'd take being bored in an office over the ERJ cockpit anytime at that point. Oh wait, I just did that last night<sarcasm>

But, everyone has to try it at some point to get the idea how it really is on the line...