Not your typical career changer thread!

[subpilot]

I am a 31yo FO for American Eagle currently serving a one year mobilization tour in Afghanistan. I got off active duty at my ten year point and began the journey to my airline career. Two years after separating from the military I made the decision to join the reserves to 1.) finish my 20 years (retirement at age 60), and 2.) we needed the supplemental income (1st year FO pay at the time and debt up to our eyeballs). Now I find myself half way around the world serving back in the military and reading all the doom and gloom stories from the message boards about furloughs and shutdowns and find myself asking if I want to, or more like... does it make since to, come back to the airline business at this stage of my life and the current state of the industry.

When I return home from this deployment I will have over 11 years of active duty service completed. This means I am less than 9 years away from a full retirement from that day forward for the rest of my life. On one hand, I am protected by law to be away in the military for 5 years and still be guaranteed my job when I return. This would take me out to 16 years military service. I could do those 5 and then return to the airlines if the economy rebounds by then and my airline had a captain slot close to being open for me (very unlikely). But even then I am only 4 years away from the full 20 year retirement, yet by doing those last 4 years I also risk losing my seniority number and thus being set back ten years in the airline career I may have potentially had. My wife and I are thinking of giving up the rat race of the airlines and just retiring from the military and then becoming a flight instructor/local charter pilot. Perhaps work at becoming a DE? Who knows. That way I am home every night. I had a year in the 121 world and I got the tee-shirt. I think that experience was enough to keep my curiosity and the "what ifs" at bay. I personally enjoy the GA world of flying so much more anyways. More freedom!

I just don't want to get out of the military and then 10 years down the road when I am still at a regional airline I end up kick myself in the behind because I didn't stay in the military. Am I crazy or does this make sense?

BTW, I am a current Reserve Chief Petty Officer with 3 kids (ages 6, 2, and <1). I would be going Active Navy, either as an Officer or Chief Petty Officer. I have the 4 year degree and knowing that the Navy is very resistant to bringing Chiefs back in (I have tried this 3 times already), I will most likely go Officer. I love being a Chief but the fact is that the officer route would be the easier way back in to active service plus it is the bigger paycheck, especially when you look at retirement levels (O3E/O4 vs. E8/E9).

Thanks for listening as I struggle with this decision!

Sub

[3green]

I applaud your decision bro. As a FO having a family and being gone all the time is painful. I too feel that I've satisfied my "what-if?" curiosity for this lifetime. For the money we make as FO's, time away and sacrifice in training it all seems for not when you realize you could be on the street next month(or in AE's case weeks away).

People talk about "living the dream" as an airline pilot, but as I sit states away from my family in a hotel living out of my rollerboard I can only think about "living" period. Not a dream, this is reality.

Once you've done it you can move on. I've got the hat, uniform and crappy reserve schedule printout for my memories and I think my lifetime itch for professional aviation has been met. I applaud those that still strive for that seat in the sky, but for me my new dream has me sitting at home eating dinner with my family. In a month or two that will be my new reality if things work out like I plan...

[Chewie von Nubbins]

Hey brother, it ain't like you got to decide right now. Even six months ago things were totally different, and in six months I can guarantee that things will be even more different than they are now. You've got to find that happy medium in your life to where you feel that things are "right." If it is going back and dunking that other 9 or so years, then so be it. It ain't like you will ever crank again. Sure, you know that you will have at least one hard sea tour in your future, but which is worse - life right now at a regional, or life aboard a boat/ship for 6 months and a bunch of little short trips in between? Best of luck when that day finally comes and you have to make your decision. I too got out at the 9 year mark as an E6. Boy was I happy to leave when I did. But, boy do I still miss some of those times that I had at sea with some of the cronies.

On a side note, I was up in NY last weekend and decided to go back up to Groton for a little visit to the museum. My co-worker joined along in the caper. He is a brother. We went into the sub museum and some old-timer was there greeting people as they walked in. He asked us if we had served and I told him that yeah....I rode 7 different subs in a 3 year time slot. Oh yeah? Yeah, I was a CT and we hopped on usually in La Mad. He says...Oh, you are a spook. Just as he got those words out he blushed the deepest shade of red...my co-worker was startled and re-thinking what he had just heard...and deciding just how ghetto to get on this old-timer for calling me a spook. Then, the old-timer proceeded to explain what a spook was and apologized profusely to my buddy and co-worker.

Although we weren't physically on the Nautilus, it is still a good sea story. And speaking of the Nautilus, boy that boat had almost as much comfort as a 688. In places, it probably had even more crew space than a 688. Nothing will ever compare to a 637 and it's idea of crew comfort. Nothing. And if you try to compare a boomer...don't even try it. That is not a real submarine. That is a 3 month holiday.

[8sm]

Looking back.......20 years Air Force enlisted....retired, then plenty of time for 2nd career of 16 years civil service...retired.....Benefits for service member and spouse fully paid medical/prescriptions for life. No worries finanically and medically.

There are few if any guarantees for this type of security for you and your spouse for the rest of your life. This level of security is unheard or offered by any company for any employee, let alone their surviving spouse.

You are thinking right and ahead.

Looking back.......I'm glad my father stayed in, so is his surviving spouse of 7 years my mother.

All the best with your decision. And thank you for serving our country.

8sm

[Wittmandriver]

Brother,

As a fellow CPO I am doing the same thing. I came back in as a Second, though. Bummer they frown on taking Chiefs back in. At least you're a Reservist so you at least have a chance. I'm sitting right at 14. You know what I'd say about going officer... Hey, if it's the only way, go for it (sir...).

I look at it this way. When I retire, I will not be at work because I have to, I will be at work because I want to. That also means I will be able to work the fun jobs that don't necessarily pay so much and still be comfortable away from the rat-race.

You are not crazy, and I know how crazy cruises/deployments can make you. I agree with the previous poster-you are thinking right and well ahead like a good CPO does. Good luck out there.

Wittmandriver

[jn.av8r]

Originally Posted by Chewie von Nubbins

Hey brother, it ain't like you got to decide right now. Even six months ago things were totally different, and in six months I can guarantee that things will be even more different than they are now. You've got to find that happy medium in your life to where you feel that things are "right." If it is going back and dunking that other 9 or so years, then so be it. It ain't like you will ever crank again. Sure, you know that you will have at least one hard sea tour in your future, but which is worse - life right now at a regional, or life aboard a boat/ship for 6 months and a bunch of little short trips in between? Best of luck when that day finally comes and you have to make your decision. I too got out at the 9 year mark as an E6. Boy was I happy to leave when I did. But, boy do I still miss some of those times that I had at sea with some of the cronies.

On a side note, I was up in NY last weekend and decided to go back up to Groton for a little visit to the museum. My co-worker joined along in the caper. He is a brother. We went into the sub museum and some old-timer was there greeting people as they walked in. He asked us if we had served and I told him that yeah....I rode 7 different subs in a 3 year time slot. Oh yeah? Yeah, I was a CT and we hopped on usually in La Mad. He says...Oh, you are a spook. Just as he got those words out he blushed the deepest shade of red...my co-worker was startled and re-thinking what he had just heard...and deciding just how ghetto to get on this old-timer for calling me a spook. Then, the old-timer proceeded to explain what a spook was and apologized profusely to my buddy and co-worker.

Although we weren't physically on the Nautilus, it is still a good sea story. And speaking of the Nautilus, boy that boat had almost as much comfort as a 688. In places, it probably had even more crew space than a 688. Nothing will ever compare to a 637 and it's idea of crew comfort. Nothing. And if you try to compare a boomer...don't even try it. That is not a real submarine. That is a 3 month holiday.

I EARNED my dolphins on the Madison (627 B), then did a split sea tour and went to the Grayling (646)... which a few months later went into Mare Island Naval Shipyard... I made a stop at the Nautilus and it's funny how 20+ years now of being away from a boat, you immediately recognize that smell that only a submarine has! Aaaahhh the good and bad memories for the good ol' days.... I kinda miss them too, but NOT cranking for 97 days!

Formerly, PN2(SS)

[DE727UPS]

I think with three young kids that you need to stay away from AE until it becomes stable enough to count on. At the moment, I'd say it's not.

I'd take a look at other flying jobs that might offer QOL over salary. Then, you have to compare that to Navy QOL/salary. Could you be guaranteed a stateside assignment in the Navy? If not, I can see you trading Navy salary for pilot/civillian/family QOL. The problem is finding a flying job that has the stability/pay/QOL to keep you in aviation. At the other site a guy was talking up his 135 Air Ambulance job as being super from the family standpoint. Not sure what it paid but I'd bet it was better than AE F/O.

Good luck to ya.

[cfii2007]

Difficult to predict, the future is.

[3green]

Not sure what it paid but I'd bet it was better than AE F/O

yoda is very wise indeed... and know the truth he does.

[subpilot]

Staying Navy will mean moving to a new location and being assigned to a ship for the first 3-4 years. A ship will spend half its time in port and the other half at sea and then we also deploy for 6 months every 2 years. After the sea duty tour I would go to shore duty which would be a 3 year desk job somewhere. Then rinse and repeat until I decide I've had enough. The pay in the Navy is comparable to regional CA pay and the benefits are way better. The QOL is what you make of it and will have its ups and downs. I have 5 year reemployment rights with the airline so I can reevaluate the airline business and my position in it at that time.

[azpilot84]

I've been contemplating something similar except I'm at the beginning of the path. I'm 24 years old have a wife and 3 month old baby. I'm almost done with my commercial ticket and getting my CFI, while it looks ever more necessary, is not exactly at the top of my "fun list". Something about being too tall (6 foot 4) for tiny airplanes and almost dying every other month from student pilots just doesn't sit well. I flew a DA40 for the first time the other night and could hardly reach brakes because my knees kept hitting the console.
I don't have a bachelors yet so I don't qualify for a pilot slot but it's in the works. I've been thinking about going enlisted at least for a while, not sure which branch or job, to see if things settle down a bit in civilian aviation. Just not sure how easy it will be to jump back in with just a commercial ticket having been gone for a couple years.

[Airborne840]

I'm in the same boat as you. I am deployed with the Army National Guard. This is my second deployment. I am also a FO with Mesa. I am a newly wed. Between working for Mesa, commuting and now being deployed again, I feel like something has to change. I have been exploring the possiblities of finding a full time National Guard job. Something in the meantime until things change for the better with this industry. Good luck to you for whatever route you choose. Stay safe in Afghanistan. Where you based at?

[subpilot]

I know I am digging up one of my old threads but I thought I would provide an update...

My tour in Afghanistan is almost complete. I have made my decision on what I am going to do. I decided against going Navy full-time because I don't want to go back to sea and deploy again with 3 young kids at home. The Navy is still there for if I ever need to enact the "the sky is falling" backup plan.

As everyone should know, Eagle is offering Long-term Leave of absences for up to 5 years. I took them up on the offer (doing my part to mitigate furloughs, lol). I have a job interview when I return stateside with IFTA. They are the flight school in Bakersfield, CA that teaches Japanese students. It is a salaried position that pays way more that region FO pay, provides full benefits, and the best part of all is that it is an 8-5 M-F job with holidays and weekends off. When my wife told my son about me possibly getting a job where I will be home everyday, he literally started jumping up and down, screaming YES, YES, YES!!! Hard to go against that... DE727UPS, you called it. The best part of all is that in the year 2013, I can go back to Eagle and hopefully be able to hold the left seat, or at least be near the top of the FO list.

Thanks for all the advice and support that the JC family has provided for me over the years. I think NJC '09 is in my future as I will only be 2 hours from Vegas next year.

[3green]

he literally started jumping up and down, screaming YES, YES, YES!!!

And that joy he has is something no amount of money, type ratings or bars on your shirt can replace. Thanks for your service and good luck in your endeavors stateside.

3green.

[DE727UPS]

Good luck to you Sub. Lots of people ask about IFTA here and at APC. Stick around so you can be the resident expert.

[subpilot]

Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere. This is my internet family.

[Counselor]

Anyone out there with a wife and family for whom the regional pilot life works? What's the best case scenario out there (assuming best airline and descent seniority accrued)?

[subpilot]

Living in base is the secret and having no debt. A wife who has a good job helps a lot too.