IT 2 AV8R at 41?

[Texas_Toyman]

I have spent the last nine years working in the IT field. Help Desk to Desktop Analyst to Network Administration. In January, my company of the last 4.5 years released me from employment along with three others in my department. For the first two weeks I did not look for a job. I spent that time deciding if I really wanted to get another IT job. But after that time I reasoned that I had been doing this for the last nine years, what else would I do? So I filed for unemployment and began searching for jobs. The market seems to be tight right now and employers are waiting for the perfect fit. I've come across several great opportunities, but then lost them due to another candidate having a certification or experience in a particular product I did not. Other potential employers only want to pay what I made when first getting into the IT field 9 years ago.

Anyway, others have been telling me the IT job market is really tough right now. A few weeks ago, as I was thinking of what else I could do to avoid going back to an IT job staring at the four walls of a cubicle and going no where, and I started thinking about flying again.

I grew up on as a child of missionaries. For a couple of years I lived on a mission base with an airfield. They had a Piper Cub and 2 or 3 Helio's (Brazilian single engine planes). During one flight (I think I was 7 or 8 years old), the pilot let me fly (no take off or landings). It was great. Flying had been an option for me ever since.

Later on, when I was about 21, an aquantence(sp?) of mine who was an instructor at Simuflight at DFW, invited me to fly a Cessna Citation 2 jet virtually around Santa Ana, CA for 45 minutes. It was exilerating.

I considered going into aviation then, but back in the day it was a long road to a rewarding career in Aviation. I was told that it took about ten years to get on with a commercial passenger company.

Well, from what I'm being told by flight schools and reading online, there is or is going to be a shortage of pilots, and schools can fast track you into a First Officer seat.

I have concerns though.
What is the right school to go to?
Can I really get the training and experience I need to be a FO on a regional jet w/in 3 or 4 months?
I was making a little over $51k last year in my IT job. I've been told due to my age (41 as of yesterday), that I would be making a little higher pay as a 1st year pilot and have better opportunity. Would anyone say this is true?
I have heard you don't make much money as a first year pilot. What about the following years?

Anyway, I was thinking I could go to flight school during the day and get an after hours help desk job for some sort of income while in training.

[Texas_Toyman]

Do to the lack of response I assume this was not a very good post.

[SIUAv8r]

Originally Posted by Texas_Toyman

I have concerns though.
What is the right school to go to?
Can I really get the training and experience I need to be a FO on a regional jet w/in 3 or 4 months?
I was making a little over $51k last year in my IT job. I've been told due to my age (41 as of yesterday), that I would be making a little higher pay as a 1st year pilot and have better opportunity. Would anyone say this is true?
I have heard you don't make much money as a first year pilot. What about the following years?

Anyway, I was thinking I could go to flight school during the day and get an after hours help desk job for some sort of income while in training.

Very legit concerns you have. The right school is up to you. You will have to do the research and decide what best fits you and your financial situation. Starting with zero time and being in the right seat in 3 to 4 months is possible, however myself and most everybody else on this site would recommend flight instructing for a while (builds invaluable flight experience and decision making skills), and even flying part 135 freight (though you will need 1200 hours to do so). Many people bypass these two activities because at some airlines you can be hired with 300 hours.

As far as the pay thing goes, just because you are older does not mean you will make more money the first year. First year pay, well, for lack of a better term, sucks, at pretty much every airline. Second year pay is usually a pretty good increase from first year pay. I wouldn't count on making 51K until you upgrade to captain at your airline, and that can take anywhere from 2-5 years on average (depends on what airline you work for).

When you go to flight school, be careful getting an after hours job, because 1) you will need to study, a lot, and 2) you need to sleep sometime, and to fly, you need to be on top of your game, wide awake.

Hope this helps a bit.

[SIUAv8r]

Oh yeah, and if you use the search function, you can find the answers to your questions here too. Also, the main Jetcareers page is full of info too.

[Chewie von Nubbins]

It's not that your post is not considered a good post. However, there are hundreds of these posts right here in the career changing section. Plus, there are dozens of people on this board that you can see their decision to make a career change and the road they have traveled to get to the airlines. I recommend you go back and read a few posts about people making the career change and come back to ask some pointed questions. I don't think 41 is too old to make the change, as there are a few people on here who have started at late 30's to mid 40's and successfully made the transition. However, with a slowing economy and the price of a barrel of oil at $110, things are different now than they were just 3 months ago.

Hiring at the regional level has been on a feverish pace over the past year or so, but things are coming to a grinding halt rather quickly. In fact, every day there is a new post of a regional that has went from hiring every person with a wet commercial license to announcing a hiring stopage, overnight. So, I would guess that people are a little hesitant to comment on near-term prospects of making the move right now.

You live right down the road from a couple of very big flight schools, so having to relocate to get the training is probably not necessary. Do some homework and weigh the fact that you will have to sink close to $50k into training before ever being able to earn a paycheck from flying at the instructor level, along with the uncertainty of the current economy and prospects of making it to the regional level in the next couple of years. If you are still interested after that, I am sure that you can get every question you have about making a career move can be answered right here.

Just my .02 pesos. Hope this helps.

[Texas_Toyman]

Originally Posted by SIUAv8r

Very legit concerns you have. The right school is up to you. You will have to do the research and decide what best fits you and your financial situation. Starting with zero time and being in the right seat in 3 to 4 months is possible, however myself and most everybody else on this site would recommend flight instructing for a while (builds invaluable flight experience and decision making skills), and even flying part 135 freight (though you will need 1200 hours to do so). Many people bypass these two activities because at some airlines you can be hired with 300 hours.

As far as the pay thing goes, just because you are older does not mean you will make more money the first year. First year pay, well, for lack of a better term, sucks, at pretty much every airline. Second year pay is usually a pretty good increase from first year pay. I wouldn't count on making 51K until you upgrade to captain at your airline, and that can take anywhere from 2-5 years on average (depends on what airline you work for).

When you go to flight school, be careful getting an after hours job, because 1) you will need to study, a lot, and 2) you need to sleep sometime, and to fly, you need to be on top of your game, wide awake.

Hope this helps a bit.

Thanks for the input. I'm starting to think I should just get another full time job and maybe get a pay as you go Private and Multi from an FBO and then find a school to do the commercial/professional/CFI bit and to build up hours in my free time.

$51k for Captain sounds pretty low. I've been reading like $100k and up as an early captain for the better known airlines and freight carriers. Is that a crock?

[Texas_Toyman]

Originally Posted by Chewie von Nubbins

It's not that your post is not considered a good post. However, there are hundreds of these posts right here in the career changing section. Plus, there are dozens of people on this board that you can see their decision to make a career change and the road they have traveled to get to the airlines. I recommend you go back and read a few posts about people making the career change and come back to ask some pointed questions. I don't think 41 is too old to make the change, as there are a few people on here who have started at late 30's to mid 40's and successfully made the transition. However, with a slowing economy and the price of a barrel of oil at $110, things are different now than they were just 3 months ago.

Hiring at the regional level has been on a feverish pace over the past year or so, but things are coming to a grinding halt rather quickly. In fact, every day there is a new post of a regional that has went from hiring every person with a wet commercial license to announcing a hiring stopage, overnight. So, I would guess that people are a little hesitant to comment on near-term prospects of making the move right now.

You live right down the road from a couple of very big flight schools, so having to relocate to get the training is probably not necessary. Do some homework and weigh the fact that you will have to sink close to $50k into training before ever being able to earn a paycheck from flying at the instructor level, along with the uncertainty of the current economy and prospects of making it to the regional level in the next couple of years. If you are still interested after that, I am sure that you can get every question you have about making a career move can be answered right here.

Just my .02 pesos. Hope this helps.

The main reason I posted about not being a very good post is after two days no one responded and I needed to post something to get bumped back to the top of the list.

I'm aware of the two flight schools down the street, the one where curry english is the primary language spoken and then the other one advertising Diamond Jets that they won't have until some time in 2008. There are also 4 or 5 other schools w/in driving distance and many FBO's.

I'm thinking alot about the FBO route now. Several people have suggested that 3 or 4 months from nothing to 1st seat on an RJ is pushing it and its better to build time as a CFI. The work full time doing something else while earning a PPL and Multi at an FBO is looking more attractive for the sake of going at my own pace, saving a little money and paying as I go.

[Matt13C]

Go here http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines.html and search the regional,freight and LCC for an idea of what you will make as a new FO and then as a CA. Be sure to check the hiring mins so you can get an ideo of how long it will take you to be able to apply.

I believe Colgan is still hiring so as an example: a first year FO makes 21 per hour, 75hrs guaranteed, 12 bid periods (not sure if there is really 13 since I do not work for an airline) come out to roughly 19k. Second year you are up to 26 an hour so you are up to 23,500. If you upgrade in two years, possible, but as I understand all depends on the current industry strength, you can make either 34 or 42 an hour, upgrading to the highest paying jet takes longer, so you are up to 30k or 38k. I did not add the per diem in since I am not exactly sure how it works.

I am not looking to burst your bubble I am just giving you a realistic view of what you can expect to make on average when starting out at a regional. I had the same misconceptions that pay was on the higher side right off the bat. It is possible to land great paying jobs, but it is my understanding from talking to many in the industry and reading as much as possible on this site, that the majority go through the regionals which means very low wages for 3-5 years.

I personally say go for it. You only live once, enjoy the ride, money is not everything. Hanging pictures on your cubical walls is comforting but to me nothing beats looking out the window of an aircraft, there is no better office.

I don't have anywhere near the experience many of the members on this forum have so I can not give you any advice on the best path to take since I am still on the journey myself. All I can say is, if it brings a smile to your face, do it.

[Texas_Toyman]

Thanks Matt! I can sure use that for reference along the way. Good forums there also.

[Flying Ninja]

Texas Toyman,

You need to do the math. I'm in the IT world and yes, it is a bit tight, but it also depends on where you are and the health of the IT market there. There are jobs out there and they are looking for people with skills. Like you, I wanted to do this aviation thing and like you, I looked into a fast track. Unlike you, I wasn't armed with the information that is readily out there for you to review and make a sound decision as to if this aviation gig is going to work out for you. I got burned BIG TIME by a flight school that had several expert liars on staff and in their management and I bought into it. Without going through the story which you can search for, the bottom line is, you need to do the math.

If you're used to an IT pay, you need to understand the reality of the airline pay scale, and how turbulent the aviation career is. It's completely economic based and if you've been paying attention, you already know that this economy is steep spiraling down. If you got a healthy nest egg that you can afford to pay cash for your flight training, do it that way. Do not take a loan out for flight school. At the end, my loan sank my dreams with the healthy assistance from the flight school I attended. They are located out of Flagler, FL so avoid flight schools based there.

Matt13C provided you with a link to the airlines and what they pay. Since you're new, just look at the regional airlines because that's very likely where you'll find yourself after you have completed your flight training. You'll quickly notice that the pay is probably not quite what you are used to as a 9 year veteran in the IT field. Remember, you're capped by the FAA to 1000 hours of total flight time per year...and most pilots don't log 1000 hours. And you need to understand that all that talk about working half the year is 100% bull*#&$. You can get a lot of feedback and sentiments from these forums. I also encourage you to visit your local airport and talk to some people. Remember, flight schools are in the business of making money. Your placement is secondary to that goal. Of course it'll look good for them if you get placed. But if you don't get placed, believe me, they won't shed a tear over it because they already got your money.

The best advice I can give you is to be VERY cautious when considering fast track programs. If they promise you interviews, get it in WRITING. If they guarantee you X number of hours, get it in WRITING. If they assure you that you will get hired by a regional airline, get it in WRITING. And when they don't, well, you're smart enough to figure out that's not the school you want to be.

On a personal note, just realize that while the dream of flying is very enticing, the reality of life as an airline pilot isn't so much. More people that I know than not, after a year, tell me that it's just a job...and the fun of flying is pretty much gone. Although I'm sure that's just work related b!tching that goes on everywhere, keep in mind, it's a job and a complete lifestyle change. If you're married or have a significant other, you may want to run it by them if you wish to keep them around.

I know it's hard for you to gauge money and timelines and what it's like, but the more you read and the more people you talk to, the better understanding you have about what this industry is really like...and the shady folks that run shady flight schools with zero ethics and morale with only one interest: your money in their pockets. Finally, stay away from any flight school that carry the name: Commercial Airline Pilot Training Program (CAPT).

Best of luck to you. I'm going to go crack open my Linux book now. Good day.

[Texas_Toyman]

Thanks for the input Ninja! I'm just tired of IT. I want more adventure. I'm willing to work for less pay, but not half of what I made last year. That's too low.

I'm not married. No kids. Just two dogs that need to be fed and watered every day.

I did check out another school in Grand Prarie, TX just for ppl. They are $3k less than the schools in Arlington.

If I can find another decent job pretty soon, I can go ahead and sign up for PPL training and Instrument after that. I have that much money in the bank right now and can save up for Multi after that.

I have an old friend (havne't seen him in about four years) that fly's for SW Airlines. I'll ring him up and see how the pilot career has been. I know he did do a stint of several years flying in Indonesia. The company wouldn't fly his family (wife and kids) over and he wasn't making enough to fly them over, so he quit.