Confusing the newbie-what is your pay at the end of the day?

[parmandjack]

Can someone clear up my confusion regarding the pay scale hieroglyphics I note at all the airlines web-sites. I'm used to 8 hours at work and 8 hours pay at the same hourly rate for each of the 8 hours on site at work...

I get confused as anything trying to figure out what the airline pay scales are actually telling me though, because it doesn't appear to be 8 for 8 as my "normal" job...

Example:

Given the details below, how would a regular Regional line trip work and what would you really earn after being away for 3 days and 2 nights?

• First Officer - $24.53 (1st year), $35.91 (2nd year) per block hour
• Captain - $62.00 (3rd year) per block hour
• Per Diem - $1.50 per hour from time of check in at domicile until check out
• Minimum Pay Guarantee – 75 hours per month for all pilots
• Guaranteed 12 days off per month

Duty and Trip Rigs

Pilots are paid the greater of one of the following:

• One hour of flight pay for ever 2.0 hours of duty
• One hour of flight pay for every 4 trip hours
• 3 hour minimum for each calendar day
• Actual flight time
• Scheduled flight time

What does all this mean ?

Thanks in advance.

[DE727UPS]

Well, you have to define "work". You're used to 8 hours pay for 8 hours work. That most directly translates into defining "work" as "block hours". You will get your hourly rate for block hours.

So, what happens when you do your three day trip? You don't give any details. But let's assume you only block 5 hours a day but have 72 hours away from base. There is this thing called "trip rig" that is common amongst union airlines. My trip rig pays me 6.4 hours a day, no matter how much I block. That makes the company pay, one way or another, for inefficient scheduling of my time. In your 72 hour away from base scenario, you'd get paid 6.4 x 3, which is 19.2, even though you only "blocked" 5 hours a day, or 15 hours.

Reading your post further, my comments above address your "One hour of flight pay for every 4 trip hours" bullet point.

"One hour of flight pay for ever 2.0 hours of duty"

This is called "duty rig". It pays you for being on duty, even if you don't fly. Let's say you did a 14 hour duty day. You'd get paid for 7 hours, even if you only blocked (worked), 5 hours.

"3 hour minimum for each calendar day"

This is minimum pay for duty period (MPDP). You get paid three hours for being on duty, even if for only one minute.

"Minimum Pay Guarantee – 75 hours per month for all pilots"

This is what you'll get paid, even if you don't fly at all, or even if your other pay credits don't add up to 75 hours.

Gawd....this is confusing. I think Doug talks about this at the JC home page. Check it out.

[parmandjack]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Well, you have to define "work". You're used to 8 hours pay for 8 hours work. That most directly translates into defining "work" as "block hours". You will get your hourly rate for block hours.

So, what happens when you do your three day trip? You don't give any details. But let's assume you only block 5 hours a day but have 72 hours away from base. There is this thing called "trip rig" that is common amongst union airlines. My trip rig pays me 6.4 hours a day, no matter how much I block. That makes the company pay, one way or another, for inefficient scheduling of my time. In your 72 hour away from base scenario, you'd get paid 6.4 x 3, which is 19.2, even though you only "blocked" 5 hours a day, or 15 hours.

Reading your post further, my comments above address your "One hour of flight pay for every 4 trip hours" bullet point.

"One hour of flight pay for ever 2.0 hours of duty"

This is called "duty rig". It pays you for being on duty, even if you don't fly. Let's say you did a 14 hour duty day. You'd get paid for 7 hours, even if you only blocked (worked), 5 hours.

"3 hour minimum for each calendar day"

This is minimum pay for duty period (MPDP). You get paid three hours for being on duty, even if for only one minute.

"Minimum Pay Guarantee – 75 hours per month for all pilots"

This is what you'll get paid, even if you don't fly at all, or even if your other pay credits don't add up to 75 hours.

Gawd....this is confusing. I think Doug talks about this at the JC home page. Check it out.

Thanks DE7...

It IS confusing.... I cut/paste those details right from Air Wisconsin's Web Page, exactly as they posted it... I couldn't make heads-nor-tails of it...

I'll look for Doug's post as you mentioned, thanks though, for your feedback.

Cheers.

[Doug Taylor]

Baaaaaasically, take the pay rate and multiply it by about 80.

While the rest is important, it really depends on the work rules you're working under and it'll take at least a few months/years to understand the rest.

Even if the work rules say ABC, the company may do XYZ.

[Lee D]

Originally Posted by parmandjack

Given the details below, how would a regular Regional line trip work and what would you really earn after being away for 3 days and 2 nights? [/indent]What does all this mean ?

Thanks in advance.

Take Doug's advice. Don't worry too much about duty rigs, minimum daily pay values etc. The basic stuff should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

You get paid by block time. Door shut to door open or when the park brake drops, whatever your company does. So I just did a three day trip that blocked about 19 hours. Times that by my hourly rate and that is what I earned for that trip.

There is also per-diem, which is paid hourly from the time you get to work until the time you leave. So a three day trip could pay something like 55 hours at a rate of $1.50 or so an hour. (Depends on the company.)
Most people don't include per diem in their calculations of what they earn since it is there to pay for your expenses. (Usually not considered taxable with the exeption of non overnight trips.) But that should help you get the picture.

An average regional line might pay around 80 to 85 hours/month with 250 to 300 hours of per diem. Though your mileage might vary.

[parmandjack]

Originally Posted by Lee D

Take Doug's advice. Don't worry too much about duty rigs, minimum daily pay values etc. The basic stuff should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

You get paid by block time. Door shut to door open or when the park brake drops, whatever your company does. So I just did a three day trip that blocked about 19 hours. Times that by my hourly rate and that is what I earned for that trip.

There is also per-diem, which is paid hourly from the time you get to work until the time you leave. So a three day trip could pay something like 55 hours at a rate of $1.50 or so an hour. (Depends on the company.)
Most people don't include per diem in their calculations of what they earn since it is there to pay for your expenses. (Usually not considered taxable with the exeption of non overnight trips.) But that should help you get the picture.

An average regional line might pay around 80 to 85 hours/month with 250 to 300 hours of per diem. Though your mileage might vary.

Thanks guys...yes, there does appear to be lot to take in, and it will take a while to properly understand.... so, considering that I am still a little over a year away from that point and actually having to worry about it... I simply won't worry about it for now and instead just simply round off as Doug mentioned, with the ~8o hours/month value X whatever the hourly rate happens to be....

I notice that you guys just got them to raise the retirement age up to 65.... so maybe by the time I'm knocking at the airlines doors looking for a job you guys will have convinced them to double the starting salaries to attract/keep bright young (snicker) talent like me

Thanks again guys...

Cheers.