Working At Home or Overseas

[future777captain]

As a student pilot, my goal, as per my name, is to be on the 777's. Anyways, I am aiming to be an expat pilot at a company like Singapore Airlines. However, there are 2 camps of thought. The first says you get more benefits from working in your home country, while others say the pay is better as an overseas pilot.
My home country is Canada by the way. The guys who work for Air Canada get a lot of benefits, while the Canadians overseas say they are better off working overseas (Emirates, Cathay Pacific, etc.....) Of course, I reckon this also has a lot to do with whether or not you have a family or not as well. As well, overseas you are likely not to be unionized which means you can lose your job at any time.
Any opinions.

[Velocipede]

You're putting the cart WAY before the horse. Remember the Confucian saying, "A journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step." You need to concentrate on the first steps before worrying about your ultimate destination.

The industry will change 500 times before you're in the position to pick which 777 operator you want to work for.

[athomeinthesky]

Your in Canada which is similar to America so you have many years of working a small job (1900, CRJ) before you have to worry about a 777.

Getting hired on to large aircraft right away normally only happens in Europe & Asia and even then they only like to hire people from their country.

It is best to put the 777 dreams on the back burner and only think about whats in the immediate future.

[charlie1017]

Originally Posted by athomeinthesky

Your in Canada which is similar to America so you have many years of working a small job (1900, CRJ) before you have to worry about a 777.

Getting hired on to large aircraft right away normally only happens in Europe & Asia and even then they only like to hire people from their country.

It is best to put the 777 dreams on the back burner and only think about whats in the immediate future.

I'll add that even when you get to a major airline, big heavy jets like the 777 are flown by the most senior pilots in the company, so it will be many years before you could get to fly it as PIC. Try to focus on working your way up the ladder and work hard for your dream!

[future777captain]

I suppose you all are right. But my flight instructor, who is 35, got her commercial at 30, just quit the flying school because she got an S/O job with Cathay Pacific on the 747. So, she said the big jets may only be a few years away if you plug along.

I will be the first to admit that Canada is one of the worse environments for finding a good company, maybe more so that in the USA. I think it's because we have a small population over a huge land mass, which means there are not many airlines to get to. Air Canada and Westjet are the top companies here, followed by thousands of independently run mom and pop charter companies, designed to bridge all the distant communties.
In the states it's different I think, because your regionals are often attached to major airlines, like Delta Connection, or Northwest Link. Easier to make a jump.

[Snuggle]

where abouts in Canada are you? I'm up in Canada every month usually. I love it up there.

[Nihon_Ni]

Originally Posted by future777captain

But my flight instructor, who is 35, got her commercial at 30, just quit the flying school because she got an S/O job with Cathay Pacific on the 747. So, she said the big jets may only be a few years away if you plug along.

Being a S/O on a 747 is a long way away from what you said your dream was. I'm no expert on Cathay Pacific, but from what I've read Second Officers don't normally make take offs or landings outside of the simulator. I'm not knocking your CFI, just facing facts. Living in Hong Kong is exciting to some people as is flying international routes. (I get both of those in my current job and they are cool.) If that's your hot button, the CP is a quick route to that end. Last I checked (a while ago) CP wanted 1000 TT & 100 ME for second officers. That's in the realm of the possible for anyone who wants it badly enough.

[Velocipede]

You're right on the money, Nihon. S/Os don't make ANY takeoffs and landing. The Flight Engineer job is the WORST job in aviation for pilots. Of course, its one you've got to suffer through to get to where you want to go.

As I said, thinking about Cathay Pacific while you're still a flight student is looking WAY down the pike.

The airline industry will change a hundred times before you're there. Enjoy the now. Live in the present. Life is what happens while we're making plans for the future.

[future777captain]

Hey Snuggle. I'm in Victoria BC. Most turbulent flying conditions ever.

[typhoonpilot]

Originally Posted by future777captain

As a student pilot, my goal, as per my name, is to be on the 777's. Anyways, I am aiming to be an expat pilot at a company like Singapore Airlines. However, there are 2 camps of thought. The first says you get more benefits from working in your home country, while others say the pay is better as an overseas pilot.
My home country is Canada by the way. The guys who work for Air Canada get a lot of benefits, while the Canadians overseas say they are better off working overseas (Emirates, Cathay Pacific, etc.....) Of course, I reckon this also has a lot to do with whether or not you have a family or not as well. As well, overseas you are likely not to be unionized which means you can lose your job at any time.
Any opinions.

Good advice here. Work on the here and now then, when the time comes, consider all possibilities. When you are in a position to be hired by Air Canada or Westjet that might be the better option. Living and working in my home country would be my first choice. Most guys that end up overseas do so because their first choice didn't work out or their home country didn't offer a safe and financially rewarding career.

There are over 200 Canadians at Emirates. Most were Canada 3000 pilots only some were Air Canada.

Singapore isn't hiring foreign First Officers into mainline anymore, only the Singapore Cargo division.

Cathay would be a good choice because you can get a North America base either initially or later down the road.

Good luck in your career,


Typhoonpilot

[Nihon_Ni]

Originally Posted by typhoonpilot

Cathay would be a good choice because you can get a North America base either initially or later down the road.

The last time I checked into Cathay, you had to start in Hong Kong for about 2 yrs. If you do the 2nd officer route, you can figure that you will be living in HK on 3 different occasions for about 2 yrs each (new hire and every time you upgrade).

Then again, you may get there and decide you're never moving back! There are plenty of expats where I live that did exactly that.

[rjmore]

These guys are right, our SO is a cruise relief pilot. Competitive mins for the position right now depend on where you are from. Here in the US it is roughly 3,000 hours. If your ego can take it the SO job is pretty good actually. Lots of time off to wander around the world if you want. The drawbacks are no takeoffs or landings and lots of sims to stay current. Hong Kong is an ok place when the smog is not bad but after the stuff rolls in it can be pretty rough. If you are single then it can be a blast.

I'm an FO based here in the US but I know several SO types and they seem to like the gig. Get your time and give it a shot.

[Patrick]

This is a very interesting discussion. I've spent time in HK and it is a great city. If you are interested in the international lifestyle Cathay may be a good choice. However, as others have pointed out, get your ratings first and worry about an entry level job, then worry about getting into "heavy iron" when its within reach.

[3green]

Had a friend that was an SO at Cathay and he loved it. He even told me there were alot of Canadian Expats there since working in Canada they'd never be able to upgrade to capt since your pretty much are stuck as an FO for a long, long time.

[future777captain]

Thanks for all your great advice. I am kind of in the same thought train as 3green. In Canada flying opporunities are too competitive, even with a very small mom and pop operation. I've talked with a few other Canadians at Cathay and they said basically they would never have the chance to see the inside of a 777 or 747 cockpit without working overseas.
I think S/O is pretty good even though you can't do takeoff's or landings, because at least a 777 or 747 rating is great on your resume.
My Dad is a pilot and he said the Canada 3000 pilots that moved to Emirates were very lucky, but in 20 years a lot of those prime overseas positions won't be available because a lot of overseas companies are working hard on training their own native pilot base.
Anyways, ironically, the native Singaporeans, Chinese, Dubains etc.... are getting free flight training, while we North Americans sweat it out. It makes me wonder if in 20 years, since not enough people are graduating flight school here due to costs, if companies like Air Canada or Northwest will be hiring pilots from overseas. Will United Airlines be the next expat heavy Cathay Pacific?

[Velocipede]

Just FYI, there are no S/Os on the 777.

[rjmore]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Just FYI, there are no S/Os on the 777.

We have S/O's on our 777's. They are not Engineers, just a reason to pay cruise relief pilots less money. However, they do make more than a N. America freighter FO. If you can get in young it is a great gig. We have plenty of early thirty something Captains on the 777 and A330 that started as S/O. Right now freighter Captain is running about 2-3 years and pax Captain on the 777 or A330 is running 9-12 years. Not bad to be a wide body Captain in your thirties.

[Velocipede]

An S/O is an engineer. What you have is IROs or F/Os/Capt qualified cruise pilots.

Again, there are no S/Os on the 777.

[rjmore]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

An S/O is an engineer. What you have is IROs or F/Os/Capt qualified cruise pilots.

Again, there are no S/Os on the 777.

Nope, what we have are S/Os. Second Officer is an official rank complete with one stripe. Our Flight Engineers on the classic freighters are PFEs and not pilots. We also have relief qualified FOs that are used as IROs as well but on the four man crew they sit there with the SO. Sometimes we take an SO as the third man to ANC instead of two FOs.

I do believe I know the ranks and duties of pilots at my own airline. If we didn't have them then it would be awfully hard to recruit for this position http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_...eers/flying/so

[future777captain]

I'm bumping this thread up. I think it contains information we all need to know. I read an article where one dude from US Airways went to work for Emirates and said if he could do it all over again he would have spent his whole career at Emirates.