Yet another late bloomer.....looking for a little guidance

[Flying Crutchman]

Hello all--I'm new to the forums and this is by far the best one I've seen.

I'll start with a little background about myself. I have wanted to fly planes since I can remember and I'm finally going to start my PPL I'm 26 with a wife and two young kids. I have been an insurance agent for 6 years now. Started out working for my old man then he sold and I kept working for the new owner. He promptly closed down my office and fired everyone in it. Long story short I started for another agency 4 months ago and I realized I hate insurance. He probably did me a favor in the long run though.

I have read many threads on this site and did a search on the importance of a degree. It is apparent that if I ever want to get past the regionals I'll need the paper. I have accepted that as a pre-requisite. I have nearly two years of college credit completed. My ultimate goal is to fly for a nice corporate outfit or a major airline. My plan is to hold down a full-time job (might be insurance, might not be) and get my PPL while working. After I get the PPL I plan to finish my degree in something besides aviation. From there, I'll garner as many hours as possible and maybe become a CFI to help me along with gaining hours. After I obtain enough hours, I plan to apply heavily for a decent flying job.

Here's my question to you JCers: Does my plan look/sound do-able? What would you change if it were you? What would you do different? Any ideas would be GREATLY appreciated. Sorry for the long first post.

--Crutch

[mooneyguy]

Aloha! Welcome to the forum...Sounds like a great plan, but my first bit of advice...start working on the family. You will need a very supportive family to do this!
Second...keep reading, a lot of great advice is givin here, by a lot of great people!

[TheOneMarine]

Man, kate bloomers are not 26 year olds. You're still VERY young for this. I'm 22 and I feel like a baby 99% of the time. It sounds like a great plan, but as was said before, your family will be the #1 factor to consider. So welcome, and good luck. If you ever need anything let me or one of these great people know.

[calcapt]

Originally Posted by Flying Crutchman

After I get the PPL I plan to finish my degree in something besides aviation. From there, I'll garner as many hours as possible and maybe become a CFI to help me along with gaining hours.

--Crutch

I'm curious why you would get your degree in something other than aviation? I understand the need to diversify if you are not sold on flying, but why not combine your education and flying experience into the same thing? It seems to me you would be wasting time taking courses in drafting and psychology when you really need to be learning about weather and aviation sciences. Just one man's opinion...

[skidz]

Originally Posted by Flying Crutchman

Here's my question to you JCers: Does my plan look/sound do-able? What would you change if it were you? What would you do different? Any ideas would be GREATLY appreciated. Sorry for the long first post.

--Crutch

It's a good plan, but since you're almost done with two years of college you can get an associate degree first and keep working on bachelors. Get a degree in what you interested in because it will be easier on you.

[Flying Crutchman]

Originally Posted by mooneyguy

Aloha! Welcome to the forum...Sounds like a great plan, but my first bit of advice...start working on the family. You will need a very supportive family to do this!
Second...keep reading, a lot of great advice is givin here, by a lot of great people!

I am blessed with a great, supporting wife so that shouldn't be an issue. She, as I, realize the importance of loving your job. IMO it always trumps money...thanks for the warm welcome!

Originally Posted by TheOneMarine

Man, kate bloomers are not 26 year olds. You're still VERY young for this. I'm 22 and I feel like a baby 99% of the time. It sounds like a great plan, but as was said before, your family will be the #1 factor to consider. So welcome, and good luck. If you ever need anything let me or one of these great people know.

Thanks for the reassurance on my age. I'm kicking myself for not starting earlier though Yeah, my family definitely comes first in all decisions I make.

Originally Posted by calcapt

I'm curious why you would get your degree in something other than aviation? I understand the need to diversify if you are not sold on flying, but why not combine your education and flying experience into the same thing? It seems to me you would be wasting time taking courses in drafting and psychology when you really need to be learning about weather and aviation sciences. Just one man's opinion...

Thanks for the advice. I guess I mentioned a degree in something else in case the day comes that I'm laid off or the pilot profession dwindles. Hope it never does, but I suppose I'm just trying to cover all my bases. In a perfect world I would prefer the aviation sciences and similar degree though.

Originally Posted by skidz

It's a good plan, but since you're almost done with two years of college you can get an associate degree first and keep working on bachelors. Get a degree in what you interested in because it will be easier on you.

Will my Associates go towards getting my Bachelors? Or would I be better off sticking my credits towards my Bachelors?

Thanks everyone for the kind replies, I love this forum!

[skidz]

Originally Posted by Flying Crutchman

Will my Associates go towards getting my Bachelors? Or would I be better off sticking my credits towards my Bachelors?

I think it would if you're in the same program. Some of it might not count if you change the school or chose something totally different. Do a reasearch, talk to the college advisor for a specific program requirement.

[Flying Crutchman]

Originally Posted by skidz

I think it would if you're in the same program. Some of it might not count if you change the school or chose something totally different. Do a reasearch, talk to the college advisor for a specific program requirement.

Thanks! I'll look into it and see what makes the most sense.

[Cjordan]

26 yrs old doesn't sound late when you're 44 like I am. I want young guys like you to succeed and spend only a short time in the regionals or air link/connections before moving on to the large stuff. That solidifies seniority for 2nd career older guys like me who want to stay in the small planes.

I think you're only a few years late. Definitely go for it. Just my opinion, I'm new here same as you, I have little credibility to even post, except from the standpoint of being in a similar position (late start).

Actually I'm not 100% sure I want to move from twin turboprop into regional jets. I love the Beech 1900... half bush plane half connection commuter. Flying out of small fields, service to remote locations in Alaska etc., that is what I'd like to do. Some might think of it as a dead end, I think of it as a way to work in some interesting locations worldwide.

[Flying Crutchman]

Originally Posted by Cjordan

26 yrs old doesn't sound late when you're 44 like I am. I want young guys like you to succeed and spend only a short time in the regionals or air link/connections before moving on to the large stuff. That solidifies seniority for 2nd career older guys like me who want to stay in the small planes.

I think you're only a few years late. Definitely go for it. Just my opinion, I'm new here same as you, I have little credibility to even post, except from the standpoint of being in a similar position (late start).

Actually I'm not 100% sure I want to move from twin turboprop into regional jets. I love the Beech 1900... half bush plane half connection commuter. Flying out of small fields, service to remote locations in Alaska etc., that is what I'd like to do. Some might think of it as a dead end, I think of it as a way to work in some interesting locations worldwide.

I'm happy to have your input! I'm just trying to sponge up all the info I can possibly get. I don't know, it sounds like what you're doing is pretty cool.

I'm definitely going to be a pilot, one way or another. I know that for sure. I just want to make sure I'm doing it the most efficient way!

[Cjordan]

I'm not doing it yet, though. I'm in law enforcement w/ 19 yrs, considering taking retirement next year to finish out w/ 20 and move on to a pro pilot career.

[Flying Crutchman]

That's cool, I was actually thinking about a Criminal Justice degree with an emphasis in Forensic Science. Good luck with switching careers, it's always best to follow your passion.

[A300Capt]

Originally Posted by Flying Crutchman

I'm happy to have your input! I'm just trying to sponge up all the info I can possibly get. I don't know, it sounds like what you're doing is pretty cool.

I'm definitely going to be a pilot, one way or another. I know that for sure. I just want to make sure I'm doing it the most efficient way!

I try to stay away from giving advice to career changers with families as every situation is a little different and aviation is an ever changing endeavor.

26 is still very young and you have plenty of time to achieve your goals. You do have the added responsibly of taking care of a family while obtaining your goals which tends to muddy the waters a bit. I say this because no matter how well you prepare yourself there are always pitfalls along the way which could make achieving these gaols very difficult. While I may be where you might want to be someday and as hard as I worked to achieve my goals in aviation, a lot of my success was simply due to pure dumb luck and timing. I think many folks don't understand this important factor when making time lines and setting goals in aviation. You don't always have complete control of your future no matter how many plans you've made.

Now, obtaining all you ratings is expensive, no two ways about it! You better have a very understanding wife. Between some of these rating you have to have a minimum number of hours just to obtain the next rating and the times shown to obtain ratings are the MINIMUMS not the norm. Boring holes in the sky hour after hour can quickly drain a family bank account without ANY guarantees of success.

Now, after spending a wealth of money, time and effort in achieving ratings there's always the possibility of of being permanently grounded by a medical problem, failed checkrides or FAA violations and guess what...bye-bye career. Another terrorist attack and aviation will be right back down the crapper. Could you withstand several years while the airlines hiring plans, and the domino effect created, come to a screeching halt?

Flying for a living may seem like the ideal career with a glamorous lifestyle and the be all to end all..BUT, it does become just a JOB like all others after awhile and you're just trading one set of problems for another. I know you don't believe that and may think I'm just another burned out and over paid jet jockey with an attitude. The truth is that NOBODY wanted to fly airplanes more than me when I was growing up. I lived, breathed and ate aviation every waking moment and nothing was going to deter me from achieving my goals. I've been very fortunate along the way and achieved my goals earlier than I had ever dreamed possible and most of it was simply being in the right place at the right time and pure luck. Why was I hired over the next guy? I don't know. Why did that door open at the exact time I needed it to? Who knows. Was I more qualified than the next person? Probably not. Did I interview better? I don't think so. I got lucky and a lot of help from the BIG checkairman upstairs!

My advice: Think long and hard about getting into aviation as a career when you already have a family. It's not something to dive into lightly. It is a huge commitment both personally and financially. Unless you have a wife with a good full time job with bennies there will be very lean years ahead...and we are talking "years", not days, weeks or months. While plans are good and are a starting point, I've learned that in the dynamic and fluid environment of aviation they're usually not worth the paper they're written on.

Also, while I'm not a big fan of these fast track training institutions it may be a benefit to you. The FBO route, while probably cheaper, will take longer. The FBO route will allow you to remain gainfully employed in the insurance biz while training and paying for your new career. The fast track method generally forces someone to move to that location and devote full time into their program. Make sure your wife fully understands this!

End of rant...good luck!

[Cjordan]

A300Capt, that wasn't a rant, that was good information and even though I'm not in quite the same situation as Flying Crutchman, I took every word of it to heart. I'm in a comfort zone in my current career, its going to be hard to step out of but the lure is strong. Hopefully its not a siren's song.

[Lee D]

Like A300Capt said, It is hard to give perfect advise to a career changer because everyone has such different circumstances. I'm not nearly as far along as him but from my experience in this industry, I completely agree with his excellent post. I too started with a couple of kids and was in my late 20's. It did take years of sacrifice to get to where I am now. (Regional Capt.) And it did take me longer because I had family obligations to consider.

I worry a bit about the big training academies. I see some guys with $80K in debt or more for this job. Unless you become a captain at a major airline in only a few years, (Yeah right.) it is going to take a long time to recoup the training costs and/or pay off those debts. Though it might be a better option for some. Just don't let your excitement for this career cloud your financial judgement. Be sure to take a good look at FBO's in your area. If you can keep the day job and work on ratings at least several times a week, that might lessen the financial impact and stress on the family.

So far I have been happier and more satisfied with this career than my previous ones. It has been a lot of work though, and I'm still not done.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by A300Capt

I try to stay away from giving advice to career changers with families as every situation is a little different and aviation is an ever changing endeavor.

26 is still very young and you have plenty of time to achieve your goals. You do have the added responsibly of taking care of a family while obtaining your goals which tends to muddy the waters a bit. I say this because no matter how well you prepare yourself there are always pitfalls along the way which could make achieving these gaols very difficult. While I may be where you might want to be someday and as hard as I worked to achieve my goals in aviation, a lot of my success was simply due to pure dumb luck and timing. I think many folks don't understand this important factor when making time lines and setting goals in aviation. You don't always have complete control of your future no matter how many plans you've made.

Now, obtaining all you ratings is expensive, no two ways about it! You better have a very understanding wife. Between some of these rating you have to have a minimum number of hours just to obtain the next rating and the times shown to obtain ratings are the MINIMUMS not the norm. Boring holes in the sky hour after hour can quickly drain a family bank account without ANY guarantees of success.

Now, after spending a wealth of money, time and effort in achieving ratings there's always the possibility of of being permanently grounded by a medical problem, failed checkrides or FAA violations and guess what...bye-bye career. Another terrorist attack and aviation will be right back down the crapper. Could you withstand several years while the airlines hiring plans, and the domino effect created, come to a screeching halt?

Flying for a living may seem like the ideal career with a glamorous lifestyle and the be all to end all..BUT, it does become just a JOB like all others after awhile and you're just trading one set of problems for another. I know you don't believe that and may think I'm just another burned out and over paid jet jockey with an attitude. The truth is that NOBODY wanted to fly airplanes more than me when I was growing up. I lived, breathed and ate aviation every waking moment and nothing was going to deter me from achieving my goals. I've been very fortunate along the way and achieved my goals earlier than I had ever dreamed possible and most of it was simply being in the right place at the right time and pure luck. Why was I hired over the next guy? I don't know. Why did that door open at the exact time I needed it to? Who knows. Was I more qualified than the next person? Probably not. Did I interview better? I don't think so. I got lucky and a lot of help from the BIG checkairman upstairs!

My advice: Think long and hard about getting into aviation as a career when you already have a family. It's not something to dive into lightly. It is a huge commitment both personally and financially. Unless you have a wife with a good full time job with bennies there will be very lean years ahead...and we are talking "years", not days, weeks or months. While plans are good and are a starting point, I've learned that in the dynamic and fluid environment of aviation they're usually not worth the paper they're written on.

Also, while I'm not a big fan of these fast track training institutions it may be a benefit to you. The FBO route, while probably cheaper, will take longer. The FBO route will allow you to remain gainfully employed in the insurance biz while training and paying for your new career. The fast track method generally forces someone to move to that location and devote full time into their program. Make sure your wife fully understands this!

End of rant...good luck!

Holy crap! That was a great post! Bolded parts are things I especially think are worthwhile.

[Cjordan]

This a great place to learn from experience, and I consider myself lucky to be on here.

I can get advice from CFI's and charter pilots at the local FBO where I got my basic VFR ticket, but it is the practical info from the inside by many of you in the airlines flying regional, majors, and major freights (UPS, FEDEX, DHL, et al) that I can't get much if any of at the local FBO. Pure gold.

[Flying Crutchman]

Originally Posted by A300Capt

I try to stay away from giving advice to career changers with families as every situation is a little different and aviation is an ever changing endeavor.

26 is still very young and you have plenty of time to achieve your goals. You do have the added responsibly of taking care of a family while obtaining your goals which tends to muddy the waters a bit. I say this because no matter how well you prepare yourself there are always pitfalls along the way which could make achieving these gaols very difficult. While I may be where you might want to be someday and as hard as I worked to achieve my goals in aviation, a lot of my success was simply due to pure dumb luck and timing. I think many folks don't understand this important factor when making time lines and setting goals in aviation. You don't always have complete control of your future no matter how many plans you've made.

Now, obtaining all you ratings is expensive, no two ways about it! You better have a very understanding wife. Between some of these rating you have to have a minimum number of hours just to obtain the next rating and the times shown to obtain ratings are the MINIMUMS not the norm. Boring holes in the sky hour after hour can quickly drain a family bank account without ANY guarantees of success.

Now, after spending a wealth of money, time and effort in achieving ratings there's always the possibility of of being permanently grounded by a medical problem, failed checkrides or FAA violations and guess what...bye-bye career. Another terrorist attack and aviation will be right back down the crapper. Could you withstand several years while the airlines hiring plans, and the domino effect created, come to a screeching halt?

Flying for a living may seem like the ideal career with a glamorous lifestyle and the be all to end all..BUT, it does become just a JOB like all others after awhile and you're just trading one set of problems for another. I know you don't believe that and may think I'm just another burned out and over paid jet jockey with an attitude. The truth is that NOBODY wanted to fly airplanes more than me when I was growing up. I lived, breathed and ate aviation every waking moment and nothing was going to deter me from achieving my goals. I've been very fortunate along the way and achieved my goals earlier than I had ever dreamed possible and most of it was simply being in the right place at the right time and pure luck. Why was I hired over the next guy? I don't know. Why did that door open at the exact time I needed it to? Who knows. Was I more qualified than the next person? Probably not. Did I interview better? I don't think so. I got lucky and a lot of help from the BIG checkairman upstairs!

My advice: Think long and hard about getting into aviation as a career when you already have a family. It's not something to dive into lightly. It is a huge commitment both personally and financially. Unless you have a wife with a good full time job with bennies there will be very lean years ahead...and we are talking "years", not days, weeks or months. While plans are good and are a starting point, I've learned that in the dynamic and fluid environment of aviation they're usually not worth the paper they're written on.

Also, while I'm not a big fan of these fast track training institutions it may be a benefit to you. The FBO route, while probably cheaper, will take longer. The FBO route will allow you to remain gainfully employed in the insurance biz while training and paying for your new career. The fast track method generally forces someone to move to that location and devote full time into their program. Make sure your wife fully understands this!

End of rant...good luck!

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain things from you're point of view. It is much appreciated.

Just curious--what kind of flying do you do? You kind of sound like your perhaps a little bored with flying? Is there a different career that you would prefer over flying? If so, what would you rather do? Maybe I'm way off base with that..

As far as your "down the crapper" comment, I totally understand that being a pilot isn't as glamorous as people think. This is why I don't want a degree in aviation so I can land somewhere if things do go south.

I have thought long and hard about whether or not this career path is for me. I have to go for it, there's no alternative. I cannot look back on my life and wonder "what if". As long as I can put food on the table (I'm by no means going into this with my eyes closed), I'm going to be a pilot, there's nothing else I'd rather be.

I won't be able to go through a fast track gig, I'll be taking the FBO route, realizing that I won't be a pro pilot for a long time. I have to start somewhere though.

Again, thanks for laying it out there for me, I appreciate your honesty.

[jbail3p]

Cruch,
Welcome to JC. Congrats on the decision to change. I am a career changer just started training in the Nasty Nati. What FBO's have you looked at?

[Flying Crutchman]

Originally Posted by jbail3p

Cruch,
Welcome to JC. Congrats on the decision to change. I am a career changer just started training in the Nasty Nati. What FBO's have you looked at?

Thanks! I JUST landed after my first time in a Cessna 150. A guy I know has been flying for years and took me up for the first time a few hours ago. Before I went up I thought this is what I want to do, now I know it is! He let me take off and control the plane in flight

What job were/are you coming from? It's awesome to be doing something I enjoy for a change!

I'm probably going to stick around the Zanesville area. There's a small-time operation here in town that seems like a good deal with a great instructor. Does $85 an hour sound about right? That's what they charge. What do you pay for an hour in Cinci? Congrats on your decision to switch careers!

[A300Capt]

Originally Posted by Flying Crutchman

Just curious--what kind of flying do you do? You kind of sound like your perhaps a little bored with flying? Is there a different career that you would prefer over flying? If so, what would you rather do? Maybe I'm way off base with that..

I guess my avatar didn't make it obvious enough. (A300Capt) + (pic of a UPS Airbus)= UPS A300 (Airbus) Captain Sorry, couldn't risist!

I wouldn't say I'm bored because I still enjoy the actual flying aspect of my job. It just seems the BS wagon that surrounds what I do, like a lot of other jobs nowadays, just gets bigger and heavier each year and that seems to more and more overshadow the real reason I got into aviation.

Is there something else I'd prefer over aviation? Right now probably not as much, besides none of them pay as much, however, I do have other interests that I'd like to pursue after retirement from UPS (hopefully within the next 10 yrs).

[Flying Crutchman]

Originally Posted by A300Capt

I guess my avatar didn't make it obvious enough. (A300Capt) + (pic of a UPS Airbus)= UPS A300 (Airbus) Captain Sorry, couldn't risist!

I wouldn't say I'm bored because I still enjoy the actual flying aspect of my job. It just seems the BS wagon that surrounds what I do, like a lot of other jobs nowadays, just gets bigger and heavier each year and that seems to more and more overshadow the real reason I got into aviation.

Is there something else I'd prefer over aviation? Right now probably not as much, besides none of them pay as much, however, I do have other interests that I'd like to pursue after retirement from UPS (hopefully within the next 10 yrs).

Yeah, I saw that after I posted it

I've always heard that UPS is a great company to work for as far as benefits/QOL go. Glad to hear you still enjoy the flying aspect of your job. I know what you mean as far the horse puckey side of things unfortunately. My current job has had it's share of that since I started in 2000

[Cjordan]

You want a BS wagon laden w/ catch-22's try 19 yrs in law enforcement... just kidding.

Every job worth doing has its BS wagon it seems. The more responsibility the job entails the heavier the wagon I think.

[Flying Crutchman]

I totally agree, anything worth doing isn't easy and most good jobs/careers has it's share of politics. If it were easy, everyone would do it

[jbail3p]

Crutch,

I am paying about $62 /wet for a DA-20. intructor is about 30 an hour. I work in IT for a Financial company. I know what you meant about the first time u. My first time i was scare $$$$less. Thought i was crazy for ever wanting to do this. But once i got in the place it was over i knew this was a dream come true. Now it all about finding the time to get a couple of flights in week. My work doesn't always allow it, but you know the same if there is a will there is a way.

jbail