Interested in 2nd career as regional airline pilot

[Cjordan]

Hi all, this is my first post. I have lurked only briefly, but got a feel for what I may be getting into. Here's my situation: In december I'll hit 19 years in a career in law enforcement on a mid size dept in the midwest (approx 285 officers). December 2008 will be my 20 yr mark, making me eligible to retire @ age 45. Under my state's pension plan you can retire @ 20 yrs but you can't begin collecting pension until age 52, so if I go at 45 I'll have a seven year dry run before I start recieving pension.

I completed my PPASEL in July '98, rented for a while, bought a '67 Cherokee 140 (160hp RAM STC) flew it for a short time but learned all about the cost of ownership and ended up selling it. When I was a kid I was either going to be a pilot or a cop. I've been a cop, now I want to be a professional pilot as a 2nd career after I retire in '08 or maybe '09. So I guess you could say I am planning ahead. Kind of like a career change but actually wrapping up one career and hoping to launch a new one.

Our 20 yr pension isn't a lot, 50%, so I do need to earn something, especially those 7 "stop-gap" years until age 52, although my wife is a licensed optician and will continue in her field which pays okay (if the state requires opticians to be licensed... unlicense states it doesn't pay too great).

So here's what I have on my mind: I want a fast track to get into a First Officer job, and that seems to dictate the academy route. Because I would be starting relatively late in life I'm willing to sacrifice sunk cost in an airline prep flight academy vs. going part 61 route then trying to find work instructing or other jobs to build time and offset what was spent on training. I also think that since I won't be available to begin training until, for all practical purposes, January 2009, I need fast track immersion training to avoid missing the tail end of the FO hiring boom. And even then I need to be prepared for the fact I may have to stay at FO rank for a long time. Some financial help would arrive in 2015 (talk about planning ahead...) when the police pension checks start arriving.

There are a lot of flight academies in Florida and Florida is a license state for opticians so my wife could earn fair money there while I train (i.e. while I'm unemployed...). We have about $120,000 equity in our house which could help us get setup living in Florida.

I could go on but this gives you an idea of what I am thinking and what my plans are.

I'm still satisified with my police career, I just don't want to stay there forever, and if I'm going to attempt to make my other childhood dream into a 2nd career following law enforcement it seems to dictate starting as soon as practical.

[Cjordan]

P.S. I am aware that among professional pilots, there tends to be some animosity towards the flight academy route or "buying a job", as opposed to experiencing a variety of aviation jobs to build time and paying your dues so to speak. If I was going to be starting at 25 instead of 45 I would definitely go the part 61 route, then instruct or try to find work flying piplines or whatever, but time is of the essence in my situation.

I also have to say that if 19 yrs of police work has taught me anything, it's that it has made me a skeptic. I've been reading some of the sales pitch material on flight academy websites and some of it sounds optimistic. I don't know a fraction about the business that most of you do, but some of the claims of putting you in a paid First Officer job after only 7 months kind of peg my skepticism meter. Not saying it isn't true, just would like to hear from some graduates who found it to be as advertised... or not.

[mooneyguy]

Originally Posted by Cjordan

P.S. I am aware that among professional pilots, there tends to be some animosity towards the flight academy route or "buying a job", as opposed to experiencing a variety of aviation jobs to build time and paying your dues so to speak. If I was going to be starting at 25 instead of 45 I would definitely go the part 61 route, then instruct or try to find work flying piplines or whatever, but time is of the essence in my situation.

I also have to say that if 19 yrs of police work has taught me anything, it's that it has made me a skeptic. I've been reading some of the sales pitch material on flight academy websites and some of it sounds optimistic. I don't know a fraction about the business that most of you do, but some of the claims of putting you in a paid First Officer job after only 7 months kind of peg my skepticism meter. Not saying it isn't true, just would like to hear from some graduates who found it to be as advertised... or not.

Welcome to the site! Sounds like your well on your way, and you have done some research, thats great. I'm in the middle of my " career change" So I cannot answer your question as well as someone who already has. As far as the "academy" route...if I could afford it i would have done it. I'm not sure its worth the moeny, But it will get you there faster! Since you have your private already concider doing an accelerated instrument and commercial course. In most cases you can get your IR in 10 days, and then a commercial in 5. from the people i have talked to who have done them they all like their experiences with it. Having an instructor one on one, that goes a long way!
I have been doing the fbo thing, It has worked ok, but I have had too many CFI and plane issues!

Good luck

[Cjordan]

Well I've not been behind the throttle in a few years. I'll require some refresher training and dual time to get my basic ticket current. This is what happens when you stop flying for a while.

[A300Capt]

Is staying in law enforcement 7 more years (until your 52 and can draw a pension while you're training) not an option? I'd advise staying with your current job if you can and work on your ratings and building time on the side.

Mandatory retirement for airline pilots will probably be raised from 60 to 65 within the next couple of years if not sooner and that'll give you a few more years of earning potential.

[Cjordan]

Its an option. Its actually the default option, because I'm still satisfied with it but as with all careers its a job. I'm being promoted in December and changing assignments so that helps. Its funny how things work on the job sometimes. Early on in my career I couldn't pull dayshift assignment for all the tea in China, and now the unit I am going to after promotion is straight dayshift M - F 8a - 4p, weekends and Holidays off. 2nd shift would be ideal for getting my ratings-- I was on 2nd's when I trained for my VFR ticket and getting time blocks in the morning hours was easy enough at the FBO that I was able to fly three times per week, weather permitting which allowed me to finish and take the checkride in about 40 hours. Being on dayshift is going to make instrument training and the ratings to follow it take longer to get, because I'll be competing more to get late afternoon and evening time blocks.

But you're right. Yesterday I went to the FBO (Tri-State Aero @ KEVV) and sat down with the VP, who used to be one of my instructors. We talked about my plans. It was very informative. I setup a BFR, which is going to take probably 5 - 6 hrs given how long since I've flown (I should have found a way to keep that Cherokee, but that is another whole story). Got an hour and half block for ground school refresher set for a week from now.

Given my goal of not wanting to move out of twin turbo props once I get there, maybe I shouldn't be in so big of a hurry, since there is apparently constant turnover in the small air link airlines anyhow due to younger pilots springboarding into the regional jets which I hope will let me become a senior captain in the small twin props sooner and as such build Capt PIC time faster. I want to be in a position such that I will be very marketable, and be able to move from area to area hiring with a different small carrier and fly in scenic regions. Example: Fly around the southeast and carribean for a Continental Connection airline. Get tired of that, be marketable enough to get hired up in Alaska and fly Beech 1900's up there for awhile.

Our son will be out of the nest in a year, we'll be DINK's (double income no kids) in our 40's with our house almost paid off. We both grew up here, and have stayed here in our jobs lifelong so far (Evansville). We don't want to retire here and we don't want to stick around a whole lot longer, we want to move around some and live in some scenic regions. I could even see us living outside the USA later on with me flying something like a Beech 1900 in a foreign country but that's probably stretching it a bit

P.S. I probably should have titled this post "interested in 2nd career as twin turboprop pilot" instead of regional pilot because regional makes it sound like I want regional jets, which as of right now is not a priority. Embraer, Saab, Beech 1900... lower and a little slower... fine with me.

[A300Capt]

You're actually in the best situation for a career changer. You have a great job (by most people's standards) which allows you time and money to flight train and prep for your next career. BTW, my father is a retired ATF agent, doesn't miss it, got tired of the bureaucratic BS. Law enforcement was my very distant second career choice.

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with wanting to fly twin turboprops. I, myself, have dreams of someday retiring from UPS and taking my bride to the Caribbean and find a part time job flying Twin Otters on floats while wearing shorts, teeshirts and crocks and finishing the day on the beach by drinking some fruity drink with an umbrella sticking out of it and listening to Jimmy Buffet.

For now, I get to go to JFK at 0'dark thirty with a 3 hour delay and then sit in a Congo line for the one millionth time, sweating out fuel burns, ATC reroutes, weather and listen to ATC read some foreign carrier the riot act for making a wrong turn up a one way taxiway and clogging up his plan. Ahhh, the entertainment value is priceless though!

Be careful with the newbi "I only want to fly turboprops to be happy and satisfied in aviation" mentality. I thought that way also when I was flying pistons. When I got to turboprops the "wow" factor lasted about 6 months before the itch to fly big jets was something I had to scratch. Moving up to the next big thing is very addictive. Now that I've been flying the jets for 20 years I'll I want is to get back to something slower, smaller and in a less hectic environment.

Speaking of flying T'props, have you thought about eventually flying for a small freight carriers like Ameriflight or Mountain Air Cargo. They do contract flying for UPS and FedEx. They fly Metros, BE99's and I believe they're getting Brasilias which I've seen out in Salt Lake City.

Anywho, I still maintain that you should stay with the Police dept and train like h*ll on the side at your local FBO. Nothing wrong with training at night and I am a firm believer that your instrument training should be done in ACTUAL conditions as much as possible and do some actual instrument work at night to get the full effect. Nothing like the real thing to hone your skills. Find an experienced CFII instructor. Get your CFI ticket, start teaching and you'll begin building time quickly. I'm also a firm believer that ex-CFI's tend to make better pilots. The best way to learn is to teach....and actually live through it! It'll seem like things are going slowly up until that point but after you get your CFI things seem to get kicked into overdrive.

It'll take a few years to gain all your ratings and time requirements but financially you won't take such a huge like you would if you retired now and have to wait 7 yrs for your pension to kick in. The key is to keep plugging along at a steady pace and doors will begin to open up...usually when you least expect it.

[E_Dawg]

I'm a younger guy, and after 7yrs of flying, 4 professionally, I'm just getting started in aviation; not even sure if it's where I want to stay...

Check out this post as for what you can expect to make your first year at a regional airline: http://forums.jetcareers.com/pro-pil...-year-pay.html

No idea how much the academies cost but if it's, say, 40k you're looking at probably 3 years, including training, before you begin break even in the field.

During your first years at a regional you'll be away from home almost 2x as much as you are at your current job. By training and living off the equity in your home during those years you are essentially trading what you've already established as a portion of your retirement for a job with low pay and a fairly risky career outlook, given the industry's history. So if the financial outlook is a part of your decision, I would not do it. If it's because you want/need to... well 40++ thousand dollars is a lot of cash to 'invest' in a job that will pay half that in the first year.

You can have a hell of a lot of fun in general aviation for 20k!! If you did that and keep your current job, you'll probably end up waay ahead financially while getting your flying fix on your own time... and you'll be able to have a lot more time at home.

[norskman]

Bear in the mind, the regional hiring market will likely be much different by January 2009. Maybe better, maybe worse, but guaranteed it won't be same as it is today.

If you can afford the $50-60K for an academy program, go for it. Do your research and your homework first. There are some good Florida-based academies, and there are some with a long line of former students who are now disgruntled and a lot poorer.

If cost is an issue - consider a good part 91 or 141 flight school. The timelag may help you in one regard. The new Cessna 162 Skycatcher -- their new LSA, is due to arrive at Cessna Pilot Centers next summer, and reportedly will significantly reduce the cost for obtaining your IFR and Commercial, as well as time-building towards your commercial.

One suggestion, invest in a good PC and ASA's IP Trainer and OnTop simulators. Some instructors don't like them, but I have used them both and they can significantly cut your IFR training and also help keep your scan and your instrument skills sharp throughout your flying career. Think about it -- in an IFR training flight, you spend .6 starting, taxiing, taking off, vectored to the approach, shoot it, vector around for another approach, etc. In a one hour lesson, you might shoot 2 approaches if you're lucky. IP Trainer lets you practice 6 approaches in an hour. And no fuel surcharges!

No it's not perfect. No, it doesn't teach you the exact techniques to what your instructor will teach you. But despite its limitations, it can still provide valuable practice. I just completed by commercial-multi-instrument, and I can tell you it saved me HOURS of costly dual instruction.

One alternative to the academy programs: CAE in Denver has a bridge program for Pinnacle that only requires a commercial-multi-instrument. It's an excellent program and the cost is only $9500. The drawback is it only feeds into Pinnacle.

Good luck with your plans!

[Flying Ninja]

I can attest to being one of the victims of the so-called pilot factories or fast track programs. I went to CAPT (now known as FTSI CAPT) and ended up with a frack load of debt that I can't dig myself out of quickly enough. And no, I'm not flying with an airline either, thanks to CAPT.

Warning you away from CAPT aside, I did note that some folks suggested that you stay in law enforcement past retirement. While this will certainly give you a good salary while you flight train and build hours, consider the warning that my cop friends tell me. If you get yourself in some kind of a messy situation, you could potentially lose your pension. My cop friends are all looking to bail after 20 years because it's just not worth losing your pension to some punk or bad situation that you would have never been involved with had you retired. I don't know what kind of a unit and/or community you work in. If it's cushy, then stay there and do the flight training on the side as suggested above. If it's daily gang banging, then bail and find yourself a formal flight school to concentrate and expedite your flight training and get yourself a seniority number.

Ask as many questions as you can about this career. It's not all peaches and cream as many pilots can attest to. Good luck!

[Cjordan]

I'm actually getting promoted next month and will be commanding a support unit. Our dept. is small to medium size, 285 sworn officers with a number of civilian techs as well. I can definitely train through Instrument, Commercial, and Multi on the side, mainly evenings and Saturdays.

My tentative plan (changed from first post above... based on things learned here @ JC) is to train through the ratings at the local FBO and maybe get CFI ticket and instruct there on the side while continuing on the dept, but I also don't think they have a lot of students so that plus part timing probably wouldn't build a lot of time from CFI'ing.

[parmandjack]

Y'know "C", some one already said it... ther is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to stick with turbo props! I love the sound of props spinning up. When talking about flying, and someone asks me what would be my dream aircraft to fly, my answer always the same... a C130 Hercules! I just love that aircraft. Too bad they don't fly those in the majors I'd have hit both targets at once.

[BillH]

Your in law enforcement, why not become a pilot for them?

[Cjordan]

Originally Posted by BillH

Your in law enforcement, why not become a pilot for them?

Most dept.'s draw pilots from their ranks, which would mean starting from square one as a new hire w/ another dept., which is a non-option for me.

Law enforcement has been good, and still is, but I don't want to stay forever. Kind of like the decision Jerry Seinfeld made ending his long running sitcom: end it and move on while it's still good, don't wait until its burnt out.

[Tiger815]

Originally Posted by Cjordan

I'm actually getting promoted next month and will be commanding a support unit. Our dept. is small to medium size, 285 sworn officers with a number of civilian techs as well. I can definitely train through Instrument, Commercial, and Multi on the side, mainly evenings and Saturdays.

My tentative plan (changed from first post above... based on things learned here @ JC) is to train through the ratings at the local FBO and maybe get CFI ticket and instruct there on the side while continuing on the dept, but I also don't think they have a lot of students so that plus part timing probably wouldn't build a lot of time from CFI'ing.

I didn't see your total time but I think you are one of the few posters I've seen in this forum that is actually pretty well situated to make the "Dream job" transition. You'll have a retirement, you need to cover a pretty small time gap and you're young enough. My plan for you would go like this:

1. Get current.
2. Get your ME rating
3. Build ME/TT time while you are working your last two years.
4. Get your Instrument ticket while you are building time.
5. Get the commecial ticket. (easiest rating of all)
6. If you still need TT to reach airline mins, go to a fast track CFI program ATP, American Flyers, etc. affter you retire.
7. Instruct for the 6 months it would take you do an academy course.
8. Keep $30k of the $60k an academy would charge you in a Dow index fund.
9. Take a FO job at a regional that best suits where you want to live and hang on for the next 7 years.
10. If you make it that far, you got it made.

Good Luck.
7.

[Cjordan]

That info is encouraging. As you mentioned in another post, having a pension that will kick in (in my case @ 52 YOA) is a huge safety net. In theory if I got furloughed or medical'd I could still take a "regular job" (wal mart greeter, LOL) and with the pension stacked on top have a fairly livable income.

I continue to think this through as time passes, and still intend to start instrument training come January... I need to get the instrument ticket regardless as it will be highly useful for private flying in the case of no airline 2nd career.

But the one thing that I have to get past is the fact that when I'm on a multi-day trip my wife will be bascially by herself in a new town with no friends or family. At least for the first few months to year until we build up some social contacts and friends etc. She's a licensed optician with a huge contact list in the optical business, so finding work should be not be too much of a problem for her, and if its an ABO licensing state (i.e. have to be ABO licensed to work as optician in that state) it will actually pay better than what she makes here (our state is not a license state for opticianry). She attends national conference every year and has contacts in most states.

Yeah, its those first few years that are the downer financially and in the worry-about-the-wife-by-herself department.

But also, I'm guessing that the pilot wives & gf's have social bonds and hang out etc while we're off on our trips, so that is another support group for when we're traveling.

[PatrickCPS]

The fact that you still have a job, with retirement pension is incredibly attractive. Get current, get the rest of your ratings while you're still earning a paycheck. By the time you're ready to look for jobs, I can assure you the hiring outlook will be a bit different. If you just need time, many schools (like us) sell block chunks of Multi time for you to get the valuable multi engine time/ proficiency. In fact, at our school we have a program that may be of interest to you: we run a Cross Country Multi Engine Adventure program that will get you 50 hours of real, X-C PIC Multi hours in real life varying weather conditions and airspace, in the IFR environment to anywhere you want to go over 10 days. Make you time building a fun vacation while you gain an incredible amount of real life flying experience.

Were it me, I would not leave your present job unless you absolutely can't stand it, or you are questioning getting you pension or not (which it sounds like neither is the case).

[Cjordan]

Yes, I still like my job and I'll tag the 20 yr anniversary first week of December 2008. In all likelihood I'll stay around a year or couple few longer, that will allow me to build up ratings, time, and the pension increases by 2% per year from 20 on so it will marginally help there, too.

My first post I was ready to charge ahead asap and look at going with a fast track, but now not so much... rather ease into ratings and flight time on the side and see what doors open up along the way. It looks like part of this is just flying and building up contacts.

Worst case scenario no doors open and I stay on the PD, max the pension to 74% (32 yrs) retire @ age 57 and supplement retirement by part-timing doing whatever and flying GA for personal enjoyment on a class 3 medical. Heck it would just be the wife and I so an old Mooney M20 Ranger (w/ Jet A aero diesel engine STC... which should hopefully be in the works in coming yrs) would be all we need.

Not a very bad fall back plan at all, really. The fall back is the default... landing an airline job as a 2nd career in coming years is the option (earned by hard work and some $$ spent on the side) the way I'm now looking at it. That's not saying I'm not serious about it, just that I'm not looking at it with tunnel-vision. I need the instrument rating for practical GA personal flying anyhow, so that cost buys a benefit in either scenario.

[juskl]

From a fello former officer, let me be perfectly blunt.

I was an officer in Glendale, Az. for 13 years, 6 as a Sergeant. I can honestly tell you that the switch will be a switch. I left for a variety of reasons. None of them bad. Divorce, dream, feeling burned out, etc. But I did it. I already had a Commercial and after leaving I finished up my CFI initial. Went to work and started out at whale s%^& level, and with the respect of the same. Being a former senior Sergeant at a department that will hosting the Superbowl this year (450 cops) and going to a beginning instructor was tuff. To say the least. It took a few months to get used to things and to build up the respect again. Things work alot different on the Civie side of life. But to make a long story short, I love what I do now.

I teach in Super Cubs and fly into dirt strips and often at about 20 feet off the ground on a regular basis to Feds. I love what I do and the people I work with, but the money absolutely sucks.... But I knew that it would and was ready for it. I went from making 85 a year to 20 with no benefits. And I cashed out the retirement. I needed money to live.

But I don't miss the BS. And you know what I mean. I miss the fun stuff (the 5 % of the job), and I miss my people (those that I knew better than my family), but I don't miss the political and upper staff crap.

Is this career worth following absolutely.... But it is a change (financially, etc.). I am going the teaching route first and then moving on later. But it will be a while before I can move on. Good luck with your decision. At least in AZ at your time, you could get a full retirement at 20 yrs, no matter how old you were. I just couldn't wait another 7 years. Good luck and if you ever want another cops point of view, let me know and PM me. I am more than happy to let you know my experiences. Some great, some not so much....

[parmandjack]

...guess I'm just depressed this last few days....

Have been really jazzed up for months about doing this full time... Don't know how many of you read my other post, but I'm 44, (45 in April), ready to leave a $100K+/yr job to pursue this...

But I dunno now? Wife is hasslin me non-stop about, well... just about everything... if I dind't have 4 kids all under 5, and one only two weeeks old, I'd seriously be thinking about going it alone again... but now shes got me worrying about money if I do this, although I think we're pretty well positioned once we cash out our house...

BUt readin a lot of these posts is bringing me down, between the wife and the posts... got me to thinking about just staying in my current job (great job,..... I just happen to hate IT), and just buying myself a twin-Seneca and flying for fun... maybe still get all the ratings but just stay as a CFI on the weekends as a hobby.... I dunno... all I can say is the more doom-n-gloom I read from a lot of members here is totally bringing me down mentally! and the heart ache I feel about the thought of not pursuing it and a staying in my IT life is, well, just too depressing to think about.

[juskl]

If I had kids with my ex, there is no way that I would have been able to leave my old life. The benefits alone would not have allowed it. And I did love what I used to do. And I still miss alot of it. Just not as much as time goes on. This is a great career. It just requires alot of dues paying, that gets harder and harder as we get older and have more people in our lives to think about. I am 36, divorced....

Though I was able to do it, at a pretty large cost, it was worth it for me. Because, otherwise I would always ask the what if game? But it was not easy. Just to live, is expensive. And on about 20 k your first year, that gets tough. All my bills come to about 2500 a month (and that is not being wild with money in the least). That is just what it costs, for rent, gas, utilities, food, insurance, etc. And I try to cut back where I can. That is just for me.... And I was used to new cars, Europe on a regular basis, ski trips, house, etc.... Is it worth it? For me yes. For others? maybe not.... I was divorced before I made the jump though, and I already had a commercial and had been flying for several years.

A friend of mine became a doctor. One of the ortho guys. He went to four years of med school, two or so years of internship, and four of residency.... But he is now doing pretty well. It just took him ten years and alot of work. He was young, unmarried and had no kids.

Now that would be a tough gig. Not impossible, just tough.

I know that for me to get back to my former level of salary (85k), it will be about the same amount of time. But I work a job that I love and look foward to every day I go in. And if it wasn't for the concern over money, it would be perfect right now....for me.....

Good luck and try not to get too depressed. If anything, you deffinitely can not say that we have painted too rosey a picture. We just want people to know the realities, not what the ads are selling......

[Cjordan]

Why a twin? Get a Cherokee Six 260. That will haul your family more affordably (albeit more slowly though) than a twin.

The only way I'm thinking to make it work for me is as mentioned doing the training while staying at my police job, even possibility building time by part-timing as CFI while keeping the day job, and on top of that we don't have small children in the equation. Our son is 18 and starts college next year... have some savings set aside for that but he wants to join the National Guard and do the Army/NG ROTC program.

Have to honestly say Parmand, if I were in your shoes, I would consider the private aviation i.e. personally owned plane route. Four small children represent a lot of responsibility. I guess it depends also on how much your wife earns and her willingness to take on the main bread winner role during the early years of a possible pro-pilot endeavor.

Originally Posted by parmandjack

...guess I'm just depressed this last few days....

Have been really jazzed up for months about doing this full time... Don't know how many of you read my other post, but I'm 44, (45 in April), ready to leave a $100K+/yr job to pursue this...

But I dunno now? Wife is hasslin me non-stop about, well... just about everything... if I dind't have 4 kids all under 5, and one only two weeeks old, I'd seriously be thinking about going it alone again... but now shes got me worrying about money if I do this, although I think we're pretty well positioned once we cash out our house...

BUt readin a lot of these posts is bringing me down, between the wife and the posts... got me to thinking about just staying in my current job (great job,..... I just happen to hate IT), and just buying myself a twin-Seneca and flying for fun... maybe still get all the ratings but just stay as a CFI on the weekends as a hobby.... I dunno... all I can say is the more doom-n-gloom I read from a lot of members here is totally bringing me down mentally! and the heart ache I feel about the thought of not pursuing it and a staying in my IT life is, well, just too depressing to think about.

[parmandjack]

Originally Posted by juskl

...

Good luck and try not to get too depressed. If anything, you definitely can not say that we have painted too rosey a picture. We just want people to know the realities, not what the ads are selling......

Thanks Juskl... no, you guys are doing great - giving the whole [real] picture, thats what a fella needs when looking at something like this... like you and many others, I just want to do a job I love, and when it comes down to brasss tacks, think I can afford it, and am also ready for the lean years. It's just that when a good number of people paint such a bad picture, you wonder why their doing it themselves, if its really all that bad...(of course this is from the outside looking in...we don't know the "reasons" people keep doing it...like you said, its good for you, despite its failings, because of your life path, etc...) so you end up second guessing yourself to death. My job is already stressfull enough, so with the wife going at me non-stop lately, coupled with the 2nd guessing, this just took the wind from my sails...Either that or my girlie tears are just me going thru my male mid-life crisis

Keep blasting realities - thats what we need, and thanks again Juskl.

Cheers.\\Jack.

[parmandjack]

Originally Posted by Cjordan

Why a twin? Get a Cherokee Six 260. That will haul your family more affordably (albeit more slowly though) than a twin.

The only way I'm thinking to make it work for me is as mentioned doing the training while staying at my police job, even possibility building time by part-timing as CFI while keeping the day job, and on top of that we don't have small children in the equation. Our son is 18 and starts college next year... have some savings set aside for that but he wants to join the National Guard and do the Army/NG ROTC program.

Have to honestly say Parmand, if I were in your shoes, I would consider the private aviation i.e. personally owned plane route. Four small children represent a lot of responsibility. I guess it depends also on how much your wife earns and her willingness to take on the main bread winner role during the early years of a possible pro-pilot endeavor.

Hiya "C",you're right, the Cherokee would be more economical. If you remember back to my bio that I presented in another string though, you'll remember that I had an engine failureon my 2nd solo, followed by getting caught in a wind storm on finally geting the plane back in the air... that combination of factors took me out of aviation for 9 years. I decide that if I ever flew again, that I'd never take my family up in a single engine aircraft, so the twin is my safety redundancy factor, ad I happen to love Senecas

You're lucky with the boy being grown.. I started late with the kids...

Although the wife was in IT with me at the start, she is now a stay at home mom since our 1st kid. She did say though, that she'd get her teachers ticket and work in the distance education programs as a teacher (she already has a degree). So that, coupled with our store of money in the bank, plus whatever I make as an FO, would be able to see us through comfortably until I started making real money.... its just ...hmmm...

I think I'm probably doing my project manager thing here, and planning out my future to the n'th degree...way into the future... way to soon.... I think I need to just focus on getting my ratings, then that all imporant CFI job ( I've already got an offer to teach once I complete it) then build up the ours and reassess at that future time... then, if it isn;t for me (pro-pilot, then buy my own Seneca, fly for fun, but teach as a hobby...

Or I could get hit my a bus tomorrow and this is all a moot point anyway

Private aviation route as you mention, still has its pro's, right?

Thanks "C".

Cheers//jack.

[Cjordan]

Teacher's salary + FO salary might be tight, depending on where geographically, but if she's willing to do that, its pretty huge towards her contributing to the dream. If you're like me, you also have some concern about leaving your wife and in your case children for days at a time while you're on a multi day trip away from base, at least until the family is settled in to the new town/city and you're able to get some semblance of a routine established.

Sounds like you tend to do what I do... get the Paralysis of Analysis, i.e. trying to get everything perfectly researched and planned, get hung up in the details and mired down. Like you said, focus on obtaining the ratings, building time, etc. If its meant to be, doors will open when you push.