PC12 purchase...need lots of hours fast

[NW_Pilot]

The company I may be going to work for has recently purchased a Pilatus PC12 and asked if i'd be interested in flying it for them. Of course I said yes but told them I only have 200 hrs, never finished my instrument rating, but have all the time requirments needed for the rating and almost enough for my commercial I also told them about the add'l cost associated with the time required (800 add'l min) for the insurance co. and just for safety most importantly.

They offered to possibly pay for the training and then I instruct until they take delivery in jan. 09. My question is...where would be the best place to go for training to accumulate enough hours and get some Pilatus time before they take possesion of this plane? Would you suggest staying local or head to an "academy" for a year?

Obvoiusly money appears to be no object for these guys and they said they were looking for someone that would "fit in with the group" rather than hire someone off the street.

Looking for some serious answers and quick, meeting with the other "partners" friday morning and need to try to convince them that i'm the man for the job.

[dc3flyer]

I'll fit in with the group... Just kidding!

If you have 200 hours, go to an FBO and finish your instrument. That will take a few hours (depending on how far along you are and recency). Then start working on your commercial. You only need 250 for that so by the time you are ready for the ride, you will more than likely have more than enough time.

As far as the PC-12 time....... I do not know how you will pull that off unless your company hires someone to fly with you until you get enough time for insurance.

Good luck!

[NW_Pilot]

The insurance co said it only had to be 1000 TT and whatever is required in type to be insurable. I'd also like to get my CFII/MEII/ATP as it will bring my skill level up and their ins. rates down and will open up other oppurtunities for myself and the plane as well.

[Pépé le Pilot]

Mmmmh, having flewn extensively the TBM700, those single turboprops are a handful... 1000 TT doesn't seem much, especially with like 700 hours of instruction in 152 and likes. I strongly recommend you start right now digging as much infos as you can and more importantly get your high performance and high altitude endorsements. And even more importantly to get some serious hours with this baby...

[Texasspilot]

honestly in order to go from a 200 private pilot to in command of a multi-million dollar piece of equipment with a couple of your friends familys in the back in less than six months is in no other words reckless.

I completly understand your ambition and desire but I just don't think its possible for you to gain all the knowledge and skill you would need to in order for you to be safe in that aircraft in the types of weather and airports its capable of operating in.

That being said first thing is first go get your instrument commercial and multi CFI, CFII, and MEI. Instruct until you hit 500-700 hours and then go fly survey, freight, or a turbo-prop airline. All of these will allow you to operate in the types of weather and airports your likely to operate that aircraft into and out of. However I'm thinking a year or so before you could accomplish all of this.

Or if the company is willing while you gain as much experience as possible in the next six months see if they will hire you as an SIC in this aircraft and allow you to gain actual experience in the airplane while being mentored by someone with some experience.

All that being said I honestly dont think its feasable for you to gain 800 hours in the next six months let alone the type of experience that would allow you to operate the PC-12 by yourself safely and without putting the people in the back in a situation that would unfarely and unkowingly endanger them. As for the pc-12 time the only place I know of that operates pc-12's at a high rate is alpha flying and I believe they require 1000+ hours before they will hire you.

[NW_Pilot]

Actually I'll have around 19 months from right now until delivery, so obviously time is of the essence! I fully understand that this plane is a whole lot 'o' rosie and that if I come into this undertrained there's not a snowballs chance that i'll be flying left seat in this thing.

I wouldn't risk my life or theirs either, " there's old pilots, and there's bold pilots, but there aren't many old bold pilots", I want to be an old pilot!

I'm not the least bit naive about this bird, but realistically if they pay for the training there is no reason I shouldn't be at least close to 1500 hrs in 19 months if I bust my ass.

My real pressing question is do I stay local or head to an academy? And if so...which one is the best one? Gotta admit, all expense paid trip to flight school for a year can't be all that bad .

Alpha academy...? I just need time/training not a job!

[Citationkid]

Get your instrument and commercial, then talk your company into buying a Malibu while they wait for the PC-12 to arrive. Call Dick Rouchfort at www.rwrpilottraining.com. After 50 hours with Dick, you will be able to fly the airplane in (or around) any weather, within reason of course. He has trained many low time pilots. This will make the transition to a PC-12 very easy. I know this would be very unlikely, but if money is not a problem....

There is nothing wrong with going the CFI route, you will learn a lot. But the jump from a 172, or even a Seminole, to single pilot in a PC-12 will be huge, but not necassarily un-doable with the right training.

[NW_Pilot]

I've thought about trying to convince them they need a plane in the meantime...(to take them where they need to go in relative comfort and all) but i'm not sure if they're going to buy into that line of thinking after spending $4.0 mil.

I do have 19 months to get things done if they decide to go this route, the trick is going to be getting my foot in the door first, then moving forward from there. And I have no problem instructing for the last 9-12 month of my training, i'd actually like to get all my instructor ratings and possibly be close to my ATP by the time I finish.

I do have about 12 hrs. in a B55 Baron and do have limited access to very cheap twin time but the owner/friend of that plane just retired and i'm not sure he wants to take on a full time twin student at this point.

CitationKid...I am very interested in maybe talking with you more and finding out more about instructors like Mr. Rouchfort that can provide specific training in this caliber of aircraft. If it's alright w/you i'd like to pick your brain more about the route you took on your "road to glory".

This is an incredible oppurtunity for me but I will not go into it with blinders on...one of the first things I will be very clear about is the amount of intense training involved in becoming 100% capable of flying this bird, after all...saftey first, right?

If I can't fly this thing I will not hesitate to tell them so, but not w/out first trying to get in the loop. I'm going to leave it at this point and meet with them friday @0830 local and see where we stand from there. Updates coming!

[NW_Pilot]

Well, I met with the "partners" this morning for breakfast and did a bit of grippin' and grinnin' and told them straight up that I was VERY underqualified at this point in time to fly this bird and that it would take nothing short of a miracle to become qual'd to be able to fly it in the amount of time they have to do it. Let's just say the meeting went well "in my eyes", and the probability of them shelling out a boatload of cash to make this happen didn't seem to phase them.

They proposed if possible, a low paying position as co-pilot on another PC12 (once qual'd) and said that paying for my Instrument/Comm/CFII/MEII might not be out of the question as in the end it would benifit them as well as me. I'm not quitting my day job yet but if the cards fall right I may be back in flight school full time very soon. Am I excited?, You betcha! But at this point i'm so stressed out by the "carrot" dangling in front of me that I can't stop looking skyward and thinking about seriously flying again, needless to say i'm not getting much work done..

I had to put aviation to the side in 2002 after my wife was almost killed in a horrible motorcycle accident, mere hours away from my inst. rating and comm. ticket and have only been kicking myself for spending $18k to get to that point. The possibility of getting back into it and to have some or all of it paid for is more than I could ever imagine.

We're all going to Boise to see the PC12 first hand and talk to the seller about arrainging some sort of co-pilot type situation but i'll have to wait and see how it goes down. Hopefully this is not the last entry in this once in a lifetime oppurtunity. In the mean time I went to my old FBO and did a quick "refresher" talked about some options and scheduled some time in the air.

NW-Pilot...OUT!

[stuckingfk]

You're in a good position, a great one in fact. But what is stopping them from hiring someone else?

If I were you, get them to spend some money on you and they'll feel invested with you. Like the others said, get some PIC via dual, or whatever and build experience. The PC12 is an easy plane to fly. It's like a big 172 with a gear handle. It really is that easy. Only problem you'd have, is when crap hits the fan, you might be crying for mommy with no experience.

Good luck and get started ASAP.

[Citationkid]

I talked to an insurance broker today about a PC-12. He said a minimum of 1500TT with atleast 150 hours in a presurized airplane before they will consider any pilot.

[NW_Pilot]

Whats stopping them? I asked the same question. Like I said before, they're looking for someone to fit in. These guys are from what I understand, a bit of a wild bunch...example, they'll be smashed at 2:00am and decide they want to go to Vegas and book a flight and go, maybe they have high priced hookers or guns and money to put in the back. Last year they chartered a PC12 for a week long hunting trip for $18k, they took the pilot along on the trip to party and hunt with them, really a cool bunch of guys!

They are looking for someone that has tight lips and maybe they don't want thier wives or anyone else finding out how they play. Not my place to ask any questions. They like to party like rock stars. The other owner likes to go to Arizona 2-3 times per month and grows tired of showing up 2 hours early, standing in line, security, etc. at the airport.

This comes from very, very reliable sources who also introduced me to these gentlemen. They approached me, I didn't approach them. Obvoiusly they're looking for a certain personality more so than a certain person and I have no problem with what thier doing as long as they don't get in a gunfight back there.

I do want them to invest some serious $$$ so they do in fact feel obligated to keep me around, they possibly want me to commit to a 5 year contract at $55-60k,401k,full benifits, 2 weeks paid vacation per year plus expenses but I have to be on call 24/7,within 2 hours of T/O, take care of the plane (cleaning inside and out), car rentals, accomidations, etc.. What they will be giving me in return is well worth it as far as i'm concerned. I work harder than that now as a contractor.

I could easily clear that amount per year but the mounting headaches and peoples lack of urgency when it comes time to pay for services rendered has me HATING the job I used to love for 23 years, i'm just tired of this line of work. My buddy has like 15,000 hours and said he still looks forward to flying everyday....that's the job for me.

[NW_Pilot]

Originally Posted by Citationkid

I talked to an insurance broker today about a PC-12. He said a minimum of 1500TT with atleast 150 hours in a presurized airplane before they will consider any pilot.

Those are similar to the quotes i've recieved. The "As low as 500 hrs" quote I recieved was only for $1mil liability... doesn't do smack for the plane should something happen to it.

If this co-pilot position works out then i'm golden! I should be able to manage those hours in a reasonable time before i'm allowed to fly left seat.

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by Citationkid

I talked to an insurance broker today about a PC-12. He said a minimum of 1500TT with atleast 150 hours in a presurized airplane before they will consider any pilot.

Negotiable.

Insurance all comes down to what you negotiate.

Granted they are going to have limits, but I've seen quotes from brokers saying 3000tt is needed, and another 1500tt. All depends on what you're willing to pay and if your broker is worth a damn. If you're broker says NO, this is the minimum (and it's high), he/she sucks and it's time to get a new one.

[MFT1Air]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

Negotiable.

Insurance all comes down to what you negotiate.

Granted they are going to have limits, but I've seen quotes from brokers saying 3000tt is needed, and another 1500tt. All depends on what you're willing to pay and if your broker is worth a damn. If you're broker says NO, this is the minimum (and it's high), he/she sucks and it's time to get a new one.

Knowledge is power; thanks for the insight.

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by MFT1Air

Knowledge is power; thanks for the insight.

Wish I would have spelled your correctly. Usually folks do it the other way around. I guess I should proofread!!

I was talking to a broker last year and I was able to be insured single pilot in a CJ3 at 1200 hours. Only stipulation was I needed the type and time in type with an appropriate captain. Whomever was paying for the insurance would have lost their shirt doing so (we're talking at least $60,000 out of pocket per year), but it would have been possible.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

Wish I would have spelled your correctly. Usually folks do it the other way around. I guess I should proofread!!

I was talking to a broker last year and I was able to be insured single pilot in a CJ3 at 1200 hours. Only stipulation was I needed the type and time in type with an appropriate captain. Whomever was paying for the insurance would have lost their shirt doing so (we're taking at least $60,000 out of pocket per year), but it would have been possible.

Can't follow your own advice?

I guess that was supposed to be we're talking.....

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by JEP

Can't follow your own advice?

I guess that was supposed to be we're talking.....

What are you talking about?

[JEP]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

What are you talking about?

Yeah,, Yeah, But you can't edit my quote......

I've burned myself so many times like that....Just returning the favor....

[NW_Pilot]

Today is the day we go see the Pilatus, and hopefully I find something out for certain as far as my future employment goes. Fingers are crossed and i'm kind of nervous. I think it's more about me possibly having to drop everything and go fly full time more than anything.

[vheissu]

Hope all goes well today. Let us know. I have a few hours in a PC-12, great aircraft.

[NW_Pilot]

Well, talked to the chief pilot at western and he shot me down right out of the gate but I explained the situation these guys are proposing and after a few hours he told me I should go for it if these guys are going to foot the bill. I think his "quick kill" was due to the fact I AM so inexperienced but after we talked a bit he seemed to come around after detailing some of my experiences flying. He outlined a few options and gave me some great advice on negotiating a "deal" with the owners as far as my loyalty to them goes. Yadda, yadda, now I approach the owners with a few options and go from there.

[USMC-SGT]

why dont you just get your ratings in a manageable amount of time, instruct and get some real world experience and have a good time doing it. This industry is to volatile to get all excited about a job 18 months from now. Who knows where you will be 18 months from now and if a pilatus is even where you will want to be. Step back a few, say what happens happens and have a great time and enjoy the ride.

[NW_Pilot]

Originally Posted by USMC-SGT

why dont you just get your ratings in a manageable amount of time, instruct and get some real world experience and have a good time doing it. This industry is to volatile to get all excited about a job 18 months from now. Who knows where you will be 18 months from now and if a pilatus is even where you will want to be. Step back a few, say what happens happens and have a great time and enjoy the ride.

I'm going to compile a list of "scenarios" I have come up with 3 solid situations and one last ditch effort as follows from the mouths of 3 seasoned pilots i've asked to chime in on the matter:

1. Buy a 180 or 185 gain "stick & rudder" time and do a leaseback to the local flight school and I get unlimited use of the plane minus fuel and they get a plane that can be used for thier personal biz as well and then sell it when the time comes. (From the Chief Pilot of Western)

2. Sign me up for a "Big name" flight school and pre-pay my tuition for 5-6 months and I go to work for the flight school until the Pilatus arrives hopefully gaining enough experience to get insured. (From the buddy with 15,000hrs)

3. Look for an experienced pilot that is only interested in building time with a short term commitment and possibly find another if and when the first one leaves, each of them "instructing me" while they build thier hours. (From the owners)

4. Find a pilot for them and tell them to get me the hell out of the aviation loop and let's go build something. (From me)

All parties involved said, "if they're willing to foot the bill that I should take full advantage of the oppurtunity" and I agree. I am only a few hrs (like 10-15) from my IR and by the time I finish that I should have the hours needed for my CSEL, then it's just a matter of getting my multi time and any other ratings squared away.

I have no desire to fly for an airline and prolly couldn't pass a thorough background check anyway so that's not really an option. This is really the only situation i'd be interested in besides flying my own bird. I've tried to "shoot myself down" 3 or 4 times and each time they come up with a new idea.

[MFT1Air]

Originally Posted by NW_Pilot

Well, talked to the chief pilot at western and he shot me down right out of the gate but I explained the situation these guys are proposing and after a few hours he told me I should go for it if these guys are going to foot the bill. I think his "quick kill" was due to the fact I AM so inexperienced but after we talked a bit he seemed to come around after detailing some of my experiences flying. He outlined a few options and gave me some great advice on negotiating a "deal" with the owners as far as my loyalty to them goes. Yadda, yadda, now I approach the owners with a few options and go from there.

Is the Chief Pilot, Tom Halvorson from the Flight Video Production's PC-12 video? They showcase the Pilatus there.

Oh, I like option 3.

Help me please to understand this. . .for the military, how many hours average do those pilot have before they transition to jets? Does anyone have an idea?

By this, I mean not necessarily the fighters, but the C-5s or C-17s. How much time TT do these individuals average?