Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting

Mavmb · August 2nd, 2003, 21:40

I love flying, but this career has really been getting to me lately. First, being a pilot is extremely competative, so competative, in fact, that many people are willing to work for free. That means if you don't like anything about your job, no problem, there's a million other applicants willing to take your job and work for less money.

Second, it is stressful. Maybe flying a high performance jet that is all weather capable and has a second professional pilot would be better, but being a flight instructor you fly little planes (which cannot handle weather or wake turbulence) with a person who is depending on you to teach them how to fly. If you're a CFI, you're the one who is responsible for saving landings and keeping you're students from crashing.

Lastly, because this field is so competative and many pilots are willing to work for low wages (again some even work for free), it is difficult to pay the bills. I've now found out that as a pilot, there is a good chance that I won't make more than 30,000 for the next 10 years. And if anyone feels that this is not true, than please tell me I'm just being too hard on myself. I would love to believe that's not true. Perhaps, my outlook is negative on that point, but I constantly hear of pilots in today's market who are just lucky to get a job that pays minimum wage.

In fact, if anyone heard of the pay that flight instructors get, they would probably just laugh. The pay is very low. Don't get me wrong; I love teaching and I would love to be a flight instructor full time for the rest of my life despite the stress, but that just isn't a realistic dream because of the extremely low pay.
I also don't want to be gone from home for over two weeks at a time if I ever get married and have kids, which I would like to do someday. So I think for now, I will continue flight instructing, but I'm looking at different careers right now because I would like to have a career that will pay enough to enable me to live comfortably and raise a family someday.

I'm sorry if I sound negative about being a pilot; if you want to fly above all else and enjoy your job, then go for it. But if you are looking at it as a way to pay bills and raise a family, I would not recommend a flying career; at least not with civilian training and fixed wing airplanes. I don't know much about helicopter flying, so I won't comment on that. Again, sorry for the negative outlook, but I'm now 27 with a bachelors degree, and after flying for three years and 600 hours this seems to be the reality of a flying career. I'm just now starting to think it's not for me because I would like to be at home (not halfway across the country for two weeks at a time) and make a decent paycheck whenever I get married.

Mr_Creepy · August 2nd, 2003, 22:08

Biting my tongue ...

Well CFI has never been a well paid position.

You might consider striking out on your own, so you can make $30-40/hr for yourself, instead of making $10 while the FBO charges $40

mrivc211 · August 3rd, 2003, 16:30

Not trying to take things away from your point, but from what I understand many many many people have had it much worse than us! Much!

Doug Taylor · August 4th, 2003, 10:28

Here's a real good phrase that completely describes aviation:

"Feast or famine"

ready2fly · August 4th, 2003, 11:16

[ QUOTE ]
"Feast or fame"

[/ QUOTE ]
Feast or FAME????

What if I don't want fame?

pavelump · August 4th, 2003, 16:23

Don't you want to live forever?

sorry mav, that's for r2f....

PFactor · August 4th, 2003, 18:07

Lets see, even if you only make 30K a year for ten years, that would make you 37 and thats not old, by then you should be making good money (altough I think you would make more than 30K a yr in that 10 yr period). But if your doing this for the money (and I'm not saying you are) maybe you should find something else.

pscraig · August 4th, 2003, 20:13

$30K a year as a CFI??? Where do I sign up?

aviator · August 4th, 2003, 22:57

Hey, I sympathize. When I got into flying (about 5 years ago) FO's were getting hired with 250 hours and a fresh com. ticket. I don't want to get out of flying, but at times I feel like the only reason I'm still in it is because I've committed so much I can't give up now.

I also notice this attitude with students these days..."why work hard and crank this rating out? When I'm finished I"ll be completely unemployable!!" Kind of sucks............

Doug Taylor · August 5th, 2003, 00:53

[ QUOTE ]

What if I don't want fame?

[/ QUOTE ]

D'oh!

Duly noted and corrected appropriately.

travis_az · August 5th, 2003, 06:21

I had some of the same feelings. So right now I am not working as a CFI or anything in aviation. My plan is once things start to roll again, then get current and go back out there. Right now I have to pay my student loans (ERAU), house etc.

This does mean that people who are out there right now will most likely get the first jobs, but for me it is not worth the effort in famine times.

I may never fly professionaly, but I will always stay around aviation. It all depends on timing.

Just a thought.

panampilot · August 6th, 2003, 18:49

Or you could come back to Pan Am and actually have a chance at getting hired in the next year.

TDK90 · August 6th, 2003, 21:31

[ QUOTE ]
Or you could come back to Pan Am and actually have a chance at getting hired in the next year

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

Mavmb · August 6th, 2003, 22:27

[ QUOTE ]
Or you could come back to Pan Am and actually have a chance at getting hired in the next year.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that were true, then Pan Am graduates would stop coming to Sawyer looking for any work they can get and my flight instructor job. Now take your salesmen propaganda and shove it! Have some respect for people on this website.

panampilot · August 6th, 2003, 22:37

Jealousy sucks doesn't it mav. Not trying to be a prick but you've baggin' Pan Am ever since you left. Regardless if 1 or 2 instructors have come over to your school looking for a job, the facts are people are leaving here for the airlines on a monthly basis. Good luck with any decision you make.

Mavmb · August 6th, 2003, 22:37

[ QUOTE ]
Lets see, even if you only make 30K a year for ten years, that would make you 37 and thats not old, by then you should be making good money (altough I think you would make more than 30K a yr in that 10 yr period). But if your doing this for the money (and I'm not saying you are) maybe you should find something else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I just hope you're right. I love flying, but I realize that I am also going to have pay bills in life, and I'm now starting to wonder if that can be done by flying airplanes or not after September 11th. I try to be a realist and I've talked to many pilots now that say this career just doesn't exist anymore. Like I said, I like what I'm doing now, but I'm also trying to look at some other things I could do in aviation, maybe aviation law or something. Who knows, maybe something that has nothing to do with aviation. I just want to be able to pay the bills and keep my credit clear in life and for a pilot nowadays that is looking difficult.

Mavmb · August 6th, 2003, 22:45

[ QUOTE ]
Jealousy sucks doesn't it mav. Not trying to be a prick but you've baggin' Pan Am ever since you left. Regardless if 1 or 2 instructors have come over to your school looking for a job, the facts are people are leaving here for the airlines on a monthly basis. Good luck with any decision you make.

[/ QUOTE ]

People are leaving for the airlines on a monthly basis! :grin That really explains why the Pan Am graduates are looking for jobs at every airport in Arizona. They can't even get flight instructor jobs, let alone airline jobs for Christ's sake! Anybody want to buy a bridge in Brooklyn?

Sheesh, give it up dude.

panampilot · August 6th, 2003, 22:55

Well, let's see three guys just started groundschool at Mesaba on Monday. Is that good enough for ya? To be honest I don't know why "all these instructors" are looking for jobs because we've been hiring a ##### load. Could it be you don't know what the hell you're talking about. I think so. I'm not going to play this game with you. If you can't take the heat then get the hell out. Go work at Wal-Mart you big baby!

Mavmb · August 6th, 2003, 22:58

[ QUOTE ]
, the facts are people are leaving here for the airlines on a monthly basis.

[/ QUOTE ]

I still can't get over the fact that you just said that. You must think that Doug and the rest of us on here are dumber than a box of rocks.

shooter13 · August 7th, 2003, 05:44

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to decide if this field is really an option or not. You have to live life according to your own terms. If you need to make a good deal of money then you shouldn't get into flying. I honestly think that I can be making $60-$70K within ten years of flying. If you guys think I am wrong please correct me. I make just a bit less than that now and no that I am comfortable with that amount of income. The other option I am pursuing is entering dental school. That has the potential of more money faster (though with greater school length and cost) but it doesn't have the appeal to me that flying does. I don't think I would enjoy working on people’s teeth as much as I would fly.

TDK90 · August 7th, 2003, 08:06

[ QUOTE ]
Not trying to be a prick

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying very hard....looking forward to your post when you get your airline job, you should have plenty of time now and the famed ACE, what's the hold up?

EatSleepFly · August 7th, 2003, 08:11

Why don't you all take your little pissing match back to the PanAm forum?

TDK90 · August 7th, 2003, 08:12

[ QUOTE ]
three guys just started groundschool at Mesaba on Monday

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably true..but nothing more than PFT, pay 60K and get a slot..everyone wins.

Tired · August 7th, 2003, 19:28

[ QUOTE ]
Lastly, because this field is so competative and many pilots are willing to work for low wages (again some even work for free), it is difficult to pay the bills.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, tell me about it. Check out this post from a newbie cfi read about six months ago. Sheez, this guys working for free are going to be the end of us.

Mav back in December:
[ QUOTE ]

I never charge students for any ground school!

[/ QUOTE ]

Tired · August 7th, 2003, 19:34

[ QUOTE ]
If that were true, then Pan Am graduates would stop coming to Sawyer looking for any work they can get and my flight instructor job. Now take your salesmen propaganda and shove it! Have some respect for people on this website.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I can count the number of CFIs that completed the program that Pan Am didn't hire on one hand. I'd venture to say that the guys your talking to aren't telling the whole truth. Who would like to admit that they either couldn't cut it, or were too much of a moron to get on here. My other theory is that they are online instructors trying to see if the grass is greener on the other side. Well, our new guys don't fly that much but I'd take it over the FBO anyday.

August 2nd, 2003, 21:40	#1
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting I love flying, but this career has really been getting to me lately. First, being a pilot is extremely competative, so competative, in fact, that many people are willing to work for free. That means if you don't like anything about your job, no problem, there's a million other applicants willing to take your job and work for less money. Second, it is stressful. Maybe flying a high performance jet that is all weather capable and has a second professional pilot would be better, but being a flight instructor you fly little planes (which cannot handle weather or wake turbulence) with a person who is depending on you to teach them how to fly. If you're a CFI, you're the one who is responsible for saving landings and keeping you're students from crashing. Lastly, because this field is so competative and many pilots are willing to work for low wages (again some even work for free), it is difficult to pay the bills. I've now found out that as a pilot, there is a good chance that I won't make more than 30,000 for the next 10 years. And if anyone feels that this is not true, than please tell me I'm just being too hard on myself. I would love to believe that's not true. Perhaps, my outlook is negative on that point, but I constantly hear of pilots in today's market who are just lucky to get a job that pays minimum wage. In fact, if anyone heard of the pay that flight instructors get, they would probably just laugh. The pay is very low. Don't get me wrong; I love teaching and I would love to be a flight instructor full time for the rest of my life despite the stress, but that just isn't a realistic dream because of the extremely low pay. I also don't want to be gone from home for over two weeks at a time if I ever get married and have kids, which I would like to do someday. So I think for now, I will continue flight instructing, but I'm looking at different careers right now because I would like to have a career that will pay enough to enable me to live comfortably and raise a family someday. I'm sorry if I sound negative about being a pilot; if you want to fly above all else and enjoy your job, then go for it. But if you are looking at it as a way to pay bills and raise a family, I would not recommend a flying career; at least not with civilian training and fixed wing airplanes. I don't know much about helicopter flying, so I won't comment on that. Again, sorry for the negative outlook, but I'm now 27 with a bachelors degree, and after flying for three years and 600 hours this seems to be the reality of a flying career. I'm just now starting to think it's not for me because I would like to be at home (not halfway across the country for two weeks at a time) and make a decent paycheck whenever I get married.

August 2nd, 2003, 22:08	#2
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,807	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting Biting my tongue ... Well CFI has never been a well paid position. You might consider striking out on your own, so you can make $30-40/hr for yourself, instead of making $10 while the FBO charges $40

August 3rd, 2003, 16:30	#3
mrivc211 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 2,033	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting Not trying to take things away from your point, but from what I understand many many many people have had it much worse than us! Much!

August 4th, 2003, 10:28	#4
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,240 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting Here's a real good phrase that completely describes aviation: "Feast or famine"

August 4th, 2003, 11:16	#5
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,113	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting [ QUOTE ] "Feast or fame" [/ QUOTE ] Feast or FAME???? What if I don't want fame?

August 4th, 2003, 16:23	#6
pavelump Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 790	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting Don't you want to live forever? sorry mav, that's for r2f....

August 4th, 2003, 18:07	#7
PFactor Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 135	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting Lets see, even if you only make 30K a year for ten years, that would make you 37 and thats not old, by then you should be making good money (altough I think you would make more than 30K a yr in that 10 yr period). But if your doing this for the money (and I'm not saying you are) maybe you should find something else.

August 4th, 2003, 20:13	#8
pscraig Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,021	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting $30K a year as a CFI??? Where do I sign up?

August 4th, 2003, 22:57	#9
aviator Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 385	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting Hey, I sympathize. When I got into flying (about 5 years ago) FO's were getting hired with 250 hours and a fresh com. ticket. I don't want to get out of flying, but at times I feel like the only reason I'm still in it is because I've committed so much I can't give up now. I also notice this attitude with students these days..."why work hard and crank this rating out? When I'm finished I"ll be completely unemployable!!" Kind of sucks............

August 5th, 2003, 00:53	#10
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,240 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting [ QUOTE ] What if I don't want fame? [/ QUOTE ] D'oh! Duly noted and corrected appropriately.

August 5th, 2003, 06:21	#11
travis_az Newbie Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Madison, Wi Posts: 21	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting I had some of the same feelings. So right now I am not working as a CFI or anything in aviation. My plan is once things start to roll again, then get current and go back out there. Right now I have to pay my student loans (ERAU), house etc. This does mean that people who are out there right now will most likely get the first jobs, but for me it is not worth the effort in famine times. I may never fly professionaly, but I will always stay around aviation. It all depends on timing. Just a thought.

August 6th, 2003, 18:49	#12
panampilot Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 148	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting Or you could come back to Pan Am and actually have a chance at getting hired in the next year.

August 6th, 2003, 21:31	#13
TDK90 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 22	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting [ QUOTE ] Or you could come back to Pan Am and actually have a chance at getting hired in the next year [/ QUOTE ] LOL

August 6th, 2003, 22:27	#14
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting [ QUOTE ] Or you could come back to Pan Am and actually have a chance at getting hired in the next year. [/ QUOTE ] If that were true, then Pan Am graduates would stop coming to Sawyer looking for any work they can get and my flight instructor job. Now take your salesmen propaganda and shove it! Have some respect for people on this website.

August 6th, 2003, 22:37	#15
panampilot Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 148	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting Jealousy sucks doesn't it mav. Not trying to be a prick but you've baggin' Pan Am ever since you left. Regardless if 1 or 2 instructors have come over to your school looking for a job, the facts are people are leaving here for the airlines on a monthly basis. Good luck with any decision you make.

August 6th, 2003, 22:45	#17
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting [ QUOTE ] Jealousy sucks doesn't it mav. Not trying to be a prick but you've baggin' Pan Am ever since you left. Regardless if 1 or 2 instructors have come over to your school looking for a job, the facts are people are leaving here for the airlines on a monthly basis. Good luck with any decision you make. [/ QUOTE ] People are leaving for the airlines on a monthly basis! :grin That really explains why the Pan Am graduates are looking for jobs at every airport in Arizona. They can't even get flight instructor jobs, let alone airline jobs for Christ's sake! Anybody want to buy a bridge in Brooklyn? Sheesh, give it up dude.

August 6th, 2003, 22:55	#18
panampilot Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 148	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting Well, let's see three guys just started groundschool at Mesaba on Monday. Is that good enough for ya? To be honest I don't know why "all these instructors" are looking for jobs because we've been hiring a ##### load. Could it be you don't know what the hell you're talking about. I think so. I'm not going to play this game with you. If you can't take the heat then get the hell out. Go work at Wal-Mart you big baby!

August 6th, 2003, 22:58	#19
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting [ QUOTE ] , the facts are people are leaving here for the airlines on a monthly basis. [/ QUOTE ] I still can't get over the fact that you just said that. You must think that Doug and the rest of us on here are dumber than a box of rocks.

August 7th, 2003, 05:44	#20
shooter13 Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,952	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to decide if this field is really an option or not. You have to live life according to your own terms. If you need to make a good deal of money then you shouldn't get into flying. I honestly think that I can be making $60-$70K within ten years of flying. If you guys think I am wrong please correct me. I make just a bit less than that now and no that I am comfortable with that amount of income. The other option I am pursuing is entering dental school. That has the potential of more money faster (though with greater school length and cost) but it doesn't have the appeal to me that flying does. I don't think I would enjoy working on people’s teeth as much as I would fly.

August 7th, 2003, 08:06	#21
TDK90 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 22	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting [ QUOTE ] Not trying to be a prick [/ QUOTE ] Not trying very hard....looking forward to your post when you get your airline job, you should have plenty of time now and the famed ACE, what's the hold up?

August 7th, 2003, 08:11	#22
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting Why don't you all take your little pissing match back to the PanAm forum?

August 7th, 2003, 08:12	#23
TDK90 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 22	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting [ QUOTE ] three guys just started groundschool at Mesaba on Monday [/ QUOTE ] Probably true..but nothing more than PFT, pay 60K and get a slot..everyone wins.

August 7th, 2003, 19:28	#24
Tired Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 514	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting [ QUOTE ] Lastly, because this field is so competative and many pilots are willing to work for low wages (again some even work for free), it is difficult to pay the bills. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, tell me about it. Check out this post from a newbie cfi read about six months ago. Sheez, this guys working for free are going to be the end of us. Mav back in December: [ QUOTE ] I never charge students for any ground school! [/ QUOTE ]

August 7th, 2003, 19:34	#25
Tired Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 514	Re: Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting [ QUOTE ] If that were true, then Pan Am graduates would stop coming to Sawyer looking for any work they can get and my flight instructor job. Now take your salesmen propaganda and shove it! Have some respect for people on this website. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I can count the number of CFIs that completed the program that Pan Am didn't hire on one hand. I'd venture to say that the guys your talking to aren't telling the whole truth. Who would like to admit that they either couldn't cut it, or were too much of a moron to get on here. My other theory is that they are online instructors trying to see if the grass is greener on the other side. Well, our new guys don't fly that much but I'd take it over the FBO anyday.

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