All advice is welcomed.......

[PGA07]

It has been awhile since my last post, I have been out of the country!

Here is the situation that I face:

I am 28 years old and currently have a job (not a career) where I can make well into the six figure range. My heart is not in it however, despite the great income potential. Growing up, I was at the airport almost every weekend (from age 3 till about 13). My father was a gold seal instructor and former airline pilot. Needless to say, (as I tell others, and you folks know) once the bug has bitten you it never leaves, and I was bitten along time ago.

I have done some great things in my life (played soccer in Europe, worked in Canada as a fishing guide, traveled, etc.) however I feel that it is time to focus on a career. I know how this industry is, regarding its cyclical nature. Yet, not a day goes by that I don't look up and wish I could trade places with the pilot above. The airlines are not a goal, corporate or fractionals are, so I think I will be ok with starting late as far as age goes.

There is a great FBO right by me where I can obtain all ratings (except float) then possibly instruct. There is a lot of corporate traffic so networking possibilities are great (they all check in and lounge around at this FBO). And it is a rapidly expanding airport in the 'burbs of a major city. So opportunities are there!

The girlfriend is very supportive (been together a long time and we live together),and with my current job I could instruct full time and still bring in money with my current job. So I guess I am asking, weighing all of the above and this industry, would any of you pursue this career? Or would you be satisfied making decent money, on your own schedule, in a job that is so-so? If you pursued aviation would it be gradually while still working full time or would you jump "all-in"?

Sorry for the long post, just trying to give you my situation and ask for advise! Thanks in advance!

[killbilly]

What's the job you've got that your heart isn't in? Just curious as to what it is if you can keep it and instruct full time.

[PGA07]

sales/design..............i do a lot of the design work for kitchens and baths in these Million Dollar plus homes. Only have to be at the office on Fridays, unitl 4:30. The rest of the week I work from home. Freedom and flexibility are great. However, the hassels of dealing with builders, homeowners, trades, town supers., etc. is too much. Just looking for a job I enjoy, where when I go home, I am home - work does not come with me.

Hence, part of the debate. Give up this freedom to train and network for a possible great job. Or stay where I am, at an OK job, yet be able to go where I want when I want. They give us two weeks vacation a year, but in my position, we can be gone as ofter and as long as we like (as long as our work gets done).

Also, after a few years of flying (be it corporate or commercial), does it get old?

[cmsuav8r]

Honestly, I'd be perfectly happy in a job like that if it would let me fly as a hobby.

[PGA07]

Thanks for the honest reply cmsuav8r. I know I am still new to the site and I don't want to stir the pot but..................after 64 viewings I thought that I may have a few more opinions from people. How is one to decide with out any feed back??? Just a thought. Have a good weekend all.

[WyoRunner8]

I think 28 is still young but its probably good if you decide soon. With a well paying job I would try to save up about 8k before I went into flight school. Now this has been discussed on these boards A LOT about how the financially poor pilot struggles to pay the bills while he/she is earning their way to the airlines (or in your case the corporate flight dept). I think the reality is that because of the needed finances to obtain the ratings you are inevitably going to struggle to make ends meet. Instructor pay is usually not very good not to mention that you are paid on FLIGHT HOUR not every hour you are actually at the flight school. I think it would be smart to save up something to supplment your living expenses. Since you are making in the six figure range there should be some money you could save. lets say you get a 50k loan for your ratings. With the interest rates today that's probably like a $525 per month payment (15-20 year term). If a flight instructor earns $12 per flight hour and you fly 30 hours a week that would be $360 before tax. That amounts to $1440 a month BT. After tax thats more like $1100 per month and with the $525 payment= $915 per month left over. So...

Rent: $400
cell phone: $50
Car payment: $250
Insurance: $70
Total: $770

This would leave $145 per month for food and anything else. Now I'm making some assumptions here on what your expenses are but i think this kind of cost structure for a single person is pretty realistic. But you have a Six figure income so I would have to assume that eventhough you make a lot you probably have a lot of expenses too (maybe you own a house). Just some things to think about when giving up a high paying job and taking a job that pays the BARE minimum. I came to this reality myself and so I have been working a corporate sales job and a waiting job all at once. Just waiting tables alone i have pulled in a net $900 per month. But good luck with your decision.

[ARGIEPILOT]

From reading your post, it’s pretty evident to me that you already know the answer to your question. So I would reaffirm it and suggest that you go after flying without hesitation! From someone who has flown in the U.S. but is familiar with other aviation realities worldwide let me tell you that you are indeed very lucky JUST to have the option of making flying your way of living in an environment that is rich in resources. Many pilots and enthusiasts in other less gifted aviation parts of the world would not have a single doubt. Believe me I know. One more opinion to evaluate your decision. To me a “so-so” job would not make it if I had other options.


.

[ifly]

I am in similar situation as you. I too make six figures and am in my early 30's. Can not stand the thought of staying in an office job all my life. I took up flying 2 years ago and can not stop thinking about it.

JC is a great place to learn. It helped me realize that life is too short to not pursue flying and it sounds like you have made up your mind or maybe a better way to put it, you can not resist at least trying. However, JC helped me understand that quiting cold turkey might not be the best thing to do. It all comes down to each persons situation with family, finances etc, only you can decide. For me, I am going at it slower than what I would like, but I am paying as I go at a local FBO. I plan to start instructing in the summer of 07 and by 08 make a more full time switch. I have to try to make a go at it but will do is slowly. Again, that is what works best for me and my family. I am looking at a local FBO flying charters and prepping myself for the VLJ market which is going to blossom soon. I am also getting my dispatch certification as another option to be involved in aviation.

It sounds like your financially secure which is a good thing and that helps. I suggest paying as you go or save for your training. Just my 2 cents. However, there is nothing wrong with going at it 100% if family is aware of what all this mean. It is no easy road and you sound like you will not be happy unless you try. Go for it, maybe slowly. I have to try it, I have 12 years of IT management experiences to fall back on if I can't make flying work out. Feel free to PM me as I took advantage of several contacts when I posted. Good luck and keep us informed.

[wrxpilot]

Originally Posted by ifly

It sounds like your financially secure which is a good thing and that helps. I suggest paying as you go or save for your training. Just my 2 cents.

I'm in the same boat as you guys... Always wanted to fly as a kid, and have been staring at the sky since I can remember. I had to pay for college and stuff first though. I got my PPL when I was 27 (currently 29) and was immediatly hooked. I also work a desk job and do ok for somebody my age. But it's very difficult to look up in the sky every single day and see aircraft flying overhead while I look forward to another day of drudgery...

Eventually I couldn't take it and was determined to become a professional pilot. I'm really not comfortable with quitting and getting a bunch of loans though, and I wanted to pay off most of my debts. So I've been flying regularly since I got my PPL in 2004 and am paying what I can. I now have all my credit card debt wiped out, my relatively new car is almost paid off, and I'm close to finishing my instrument rating with about 190 hours of pretty interesting and varied flight time with different a/c. I *should* be close to my comm in Feb, and will head off to get my CFI/CFII this spring at some 2-4 week deal (AF or Sheble).

A few days ago I posted about how frustrating it is to pay as I go, keeping one foot in my day job while I progress through aviation. So many other people that I know started around the same time I did and are instructing and building time... But then I see threads like the one below and it makes me realize the patience is worth it:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=86936

Advantages either way, but if you're able to stay out of debt I think that's the way to go - even though it feels like you're moving slowly at times.

If nothing else, start working towards your PPL. You'll quickly realize if you want to be a professional pilot or not. It sounds like you will, but if nothing else it'll be yet another "data point" for you without having to make the full plunge. Good luck!!

[Adam2006]

OK, if you don't already have your private, I would get that first while researching the career a little more. I believe you will need more hours for the corporate side of aviation, as appose to the regionals(not 100% sure on that).

I think it is a great idea for you to keep your current job while building hours and ratings, especially if it pays well. That is exactly what I would do if I was in your situation.

I am 30, and about to take the dive into full-time training. I know their is money in aviation, just not right away. I am planning for this, and would advise you do the same. Somebody said "find a job you like, and you will never work again."

You sound like you have a pretty cush job making some decent coin. Milk-it to get where you want to be, ie, the sky!

[juskl]

Best idea in the world..... Follow what you love and the money will follow. Sounds like you could probably do some consulting for extra cash on the side. A lot of us here have either made the leap or are about to or want to. I can only give you my current experience so here goes.

I started flying a few hours in 90 when I was in college. Obviously I couldn't afford to keep that up (beer was more important So after becoming a Police Officer in 93, I started flying again to the point of soloing and getting ready for my x-countries..... Long story short, got another car and stopped flying (always regretted that)....

I always have been in love with all things aviation and always wanted to go back to it. In 2002, I finished my PPL, Instrument and Commercial in 2003. Then I had to stop for a bit as my wife and I opened up a restaurant (awesome experience, but put my flying on hold). I continued to fly at least once every month or two to keep up on things and because I love it.

My last day with the Police Department was Aug 3rd of this year. I resigned after 13 years. I had been a Sergeant for 6 years and loved what I did (I just knew that I had to fly). Oh yes, and my department did not have an air unit though one may get created within the next several years. I knew in my heart and through experience what it is that I wanted to do. I want to fly.

I am in the fortunate position to have enough with my retirement accounts to live comfortably with out worrying about how much or little I will make for the next few years. So after a month or so off (havn't had that since like 1989) I started back and just finished phase one of my CFI training. It is challenging and I love every minute of it.

To be honest going into flying full time saved me so to speak. As much as I will miss my former coworkers (family.....), I knew that the job was killing me so to speak because I wasn't doing what I really wanted to do. You may wonder what my end goal is in aviation???

The answer is that for me now, this is one huge adventure and I am willing to see where it takes me. Instructing for now and if I love it, I will keep on doing it.... Maybe flying floats in the Pacific Northwest in the future, or air evac, or charter, or flight seeing or fractional, or airline, etc..... It is not that I don't have a goal, it is just that I am finally doing what I have always dreamed of, and I am just enjoying the ride.

I think that too many of us get too driven to end up as a certain status in a given career that we miss out on the awesome experiences that glide by us as we have our blinders on and target locked in.

Sorry if I am rambling. But, if you are in a position to leap, do it. Sounds like you are and that finances shouldn't be much of a burden. Stay away from loans at all costs..... Better to go at things a little bit slower or pay out right and save thousands in the end.

Do the FBO thing and support your local economy for awhile. See how you like it and make great connections. Than enjoy the ride with a smile on your face. Your life will be the richer for it........

[TexasFlyer]

Nice to see a lot of us are in the same situation. Fairly stable good paying jobs but not happy since our dream is slipping past us with every day we are not in the cockpit. For some reason life choices took us away from our dream, but the dream never left us. Seems like once we get to the 25-35 range we realize following a passion is more rewarding than making six figures since all that money still is not enough to satisfy a flying as a hobby. Some, like me due to lack of time. Others, maybe due to even at $120K+ the responsibility of aircraft ownership and maintaining ratings as a hobby creates more stress than pleasure at times.

At just shy of 35, I'll be taking my leap of faith. I'll have at leat $50K saved up and absolutely zero debt with a late model car (reliable tranpsort for the next 10 years) and a late model motorcycle (a cheap hobby that will keep me sane and relieve stress on the occassional "bad" flying day as I learn... of course I'd trade that in on a good woman but I'm yet to find a good one yet that understands and accepts where the next 5-8 years of my life will take me). I worked hard to get to this point while making plenty of mistakes along the way coupled with an economic slowdown that caused about 3 years of delay's to a plan I been working for as long as I can remember. But in the end, all I can say is that with a lot of hard work, intense dedication and focus, speaking with many current pilots and hiring managers, and research from this site, kept the dream alive.

It's a leap of faith I must take. Correction... it's a leap of faith we all must take! Because we and are but in the end we will feel like .

[surreal1221]

TexasFlyer, you still shopping for a training facility, or have you made your mind up? If I recall, we both plan on starting this adventure next spring / early summer.

[TexasFlyer]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

TexasFlyer, you still shopping for a training facility, or have you made your mind up? If I recall, we both plan on starting this adventure next spring / early summer.

I have narrowed it as such for a start date of no later than mid-October 2007 since if I work for another 10 months I'll have enough saved up to pay for my frist two choices in cash (of course that does not include living expenses so I'll still have a loan to cover that. Hence my ideal target is mid September 2007 for a start date. My last dat in my current biz is slated for 8/31/07 or 9/15/07 depenidng on me transitioning the division to a new Director for our Aviation Division; so I better find one by then or they'll just have to do without... I have some good people under me so I know they can do without and maybe one of them will even step up to prove themself over the next 10 months which will make life easier than looking to hire from the outside).

The schools are narrowed down to three that I will visit in May, but without the site visit here are my current thoughts (might change after site visit, but it woudl take quite a lot to change this list):

1) Falcon Aviation Academy - My first choice due to what I'll call "overall value" when taking into consideration the cost vs. education vs. program vs. aircraft trained in. If they remain just as competitive in cost and if I am impressed with what I see when I visit, this is my first choice. Oh, and I am super excited about flying the Diamond Aircraft since I think those things are really cool. And I belevie it's important to be both proficient in stream guages and glass, and you get both at Falcon. And with being a CFI there, multi experience seems to be quite easy to get in a timely manner. So these things all keep me excited about Falcon and adds to their "overall value" in my opinion.

2) Ari-Ben Aviator- My second choice on default of being so cheap compared to other options, yet having a very proven program with tons of multi. Also I like the housing situation as it's ideal for my personal situation so they got extra points on this (Falcon has the worst sitation for me due to their housing being a very expensive choice for me and GA having a helmet law which I despise, but this is not bad enough to knock them out of first place even though it added substnaital cost to the program). Ari falls to second though in what I consider to be "overall value" due to me being less than excited about their program structure and fleet of aircraft. Now if over the next 10 months, Falcon prices increase faster than Ari-Ben, that can change things real quick since I can't afford much over the full cost I estimated for their program with housing included based on the amount I'll have saved 8/31/07.

3) Flight Saftey - My dream school due to structure and I beleive they have the perfect program set up for me as I love what they do and how they do it. I am certain I can not afford to go here since Ari-Ben is expensive enough and Falcon even more so due to things stated above. So flight Safety, while my dream school, will most likely not be where I go simply due to cost.


If I remember correct, you were going to be going to Falcon? So I'll most likely see you there. Sounds like you might be a few months ahead of me.

Since I have my schools narrowed, right now my research has turned to figuring out what career path to take. I'm working on if I want to go Freight Dawg, Regional, or Corporate. I am really torn between all three since they all have major pros and cons. So much to know and think about with so many choices, but I always been super successful in life by having a pretty firm short term 12 month career plan and then a loose 3-5 year career path mapped out in writing which tends to slowly be modified for current circumstances and realistic objectives. Hence why I now am trying to figure out which career path to shoot for. I'm reading a book called Professional Pilto Career Guide which is helpful, but a little outdated.

PS - Why do I always end up writing a novel!!!

[greaper007]

Do what makes you happy. However, remember aviation has a lot of bullpoop that goes along with it, just like the construction industry. Your pop's was an airline pilot. So I'm sure you remember celebrating Christmas on December 20th or 29 (I do). I still love flying, but once I started doing it professionally (instructor right now), I'm starting to get jaded. It's going to be years before I even come close to making what you did when you first started your job. Then again, my Dad makes about 300,000 a year right now as a Captain, so it's still possible.

Even with all this junk, I'd say go for it. Even if it doesn't work out, at least you know. All my life I thought that I wanted to fly fighters. Then I actually went in the military. I realized right away I'd go mental if I had to spend the next ten years in the marines. If I wouldn't have given it a go, I'd still be sitting here thinking that I made the wrong choice. Good luck man.

[PGA07]

NOW THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT ! Great info. everybody. All of it is greatly appreciated. After reading what all of you had to say, I do feel fortunate in two respects. First, I have a job that will pay decent money and it is something I can do on the side. Second, the financial and emotional support at home is wonderful.

I whole heartedly agree with TX about reaching that 25 - 35 year old range. It seems as though things change. A switch is not flipped, but rather the light is powered by a dimmer. Every so slowly we begin to realize what is important in life. Yes, having the bling and all the new toys may be great, but are you truley living?

THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING ALIVE AND ACTUALLY LIVING!!

Now I understand why so many of you are dedicated to this site. Hopefully I will begin the PVT after the first of the year and beable to help someone on here like you all have. Great Site! Thank you all!!!

[Flying Ninja]

PGA07,

It definitely sound to me like you're interested in flying. I just find it a bit perplexing for someone who's making over six figures and a cushy life style to want to dive into aviation as a career and enjoy ramen noodles as a substitute for going out to dinner with the girlfriend. My advice to you is to plan out your finances. Flight training is very expensive and building time can be just as expensive.

Since you have the bank roll to play, you might want to jump into a fast track program to get all your ratings and certifications. I would take it slow and get that private pilot certification first. Just because you have the dream, doesn't mean you can fly the plane. Not everyone is cut out to be a pilot. It's better you find out early that you have the aptitude for it by getting your private certification first. Once you get that, then it's on!

So provided that you get your private certification, look into a fast track program to get your certifications so that you can start doing the flight instructor thing and build the time you need. You mentioned corporate flying, which is great, but they do generally want more flight time than regional airlines. I believe the regionals right now are looking for 1000 total time and 100 multi-engine. As a comparison, this is what NetJets is looking for:

- Airline Transport Pilot Certificate (Multi-Engine Land)
- Current FAA First Class Medical certificate
- 2500 hours total pilot time
- 500 hours fixed wing multi-engine time
- 250 hours instrument time (actual or simulated in flight - excludes simulator time)

DayJet (a VLJ operator) is looking for (among other things):

- 3,000 hours total flight time (excluding helicopter, simulator and flight engineer time)
- 1,000 hours Pilot-in-Command (PIC) time
- 1,000 hours multi-engine time
- 500 hours turbo-jet PIC time or equivalent

As you can see, there's quite a bit of difference in the time requirements between regional vs. corporate vs. VLJ markets. Consider your options carefully and do a full financial picture analysis before you decide to jump into this. Having gone through a flight training program and ended up in a huge debt and without a job, I can tell you that "the bug" bite has since faded. I really have little desire to fly for a career...and the whole flying as a hobby is questionable these days as the depression of not being able to afford to fly is wearing me out.

Your ability to fly for a career depends largely on money. If you have money, then getting into the industry is just a matter of time and dedication in your studies. Just do a lot of research and learn what you're giving up in your current quality of life when you get into this profession. I suspect that six figure life style is paved with lots of restaurants, vacations, and toys. Unless you got plenty of cash in the bank to support that life style, be prepared to give all that up to breathe the filtered bleed air at altitude in that flight deck.

I wouldn't advise anyone to "take a leap of faith" with aviation. Faith has nothing to do with it. Getting into aviation has a simple formula: money, luck, and sacrifice. And you'll need plenty of each to make it. Best of luck to you.

[PGA07]

Thanks for the input Ninja..............I do have the skill, I used to fly with my father all the time. The time was not logged, but I did all of the flying. I can understand your concern about the money, sacrifice, and dedication. I am fully aware of all of that. I started this tread to get as much feed back as I can.

I do have a relaxed life style right now which is nice. I also have many other possibilities for my future. I am just trying to decide which route to follow. I guess I am fortunate (or unfortunate) to have the option of flying, staying where I am, possibly starting my own business in the outdoor industry, or going through qualifying school for a professional sport.

Problem is.........I love aviation, however, I am worried that after the time, money and sacrifice, it may get old. I just can't see how from a FL.

[Flying Ninja]

Well, if it helps you put things into perspective, everyone that I know who finally made it to the regionals pretty much all said, "it's just a job" and "it's not all that". Sure, the view is great. But make no mistake that every time you're enjoying the view, you already paid for it in many ways besides money.

I don't mean to deter you from following a dream or passion. Just be realistic about it. A lot of people talk of aviation like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's the greatest thing when you can command your personally owned jet flying whenever and where ever you want and not worry about money doing it. Since that's mostly unreachable, flying a jet for a career is just another job.

Do some personal soul searching if you will and see if you'd be happy doing all those other opportunities and fly for both personal enjoyment and as part of your business(es). See the forest for the trees for they are laced with poison ivy if you're not careful when it comes to flying as a career.

[juskl]

I'll restate what I said before. Follow what you love. I have been following this site now for several years and write from time to time. But I think that most who come here are looking for info on how to end up in their dream jet job.

So naturally, people are going to get disillusioned because they either hear of someone or experienced for themselves, sitting right seat making below what I did as a Police Officer in 1993 (27K) and it is not the glamore that it once was many years ago.

The main difference these days is that many originally went into a large amount of debt (some up to 100K) trying to achieve the dream.... You don't have to go that way... You can, but you don't have to..... (support your local flight school and learn to fly there).

You can go after what you want. And yes there will be a price to pay in terms of quality of life, time and day of work, paying your dues (sometimes for several years or more), and most importantly, the possibility that it is not what you wanted it to be (always risk in all that we do).

But I must tell you, that you will always play the "I wish" game if you do not find out for yourself. I must agree with the privious post that some do have to go back to the old college ramen noddle thing. But you seem to be pretty financially savy as to not have to experience that. I think that if most people went at this with knowledge, a bit of conservatism (not politically), and a touch of reality, it can work. Just don't expect six figure salaries in the near future from this line of work, nor the capt spot of a 747 within the next 10, 20 or more years.

There are other areas in aviation besides airline flying from which to achieve and be happy. Come to think of it, there are many areas in aviation where you may say, "this is awesome and I am going to stay here for a while".

I knew a guy in Alaska whom had his own flying service and had for decades. He flew his Cessna 185 and loved every day (ok maybe not every day), but he told me that he wouldn't change a thing. He was his own boss, he flew in some of the most beautiful scenery in the world with some of the most challenging flying in the world..... For him that was his dream and he achieved. Again, treat this like an adventure and see where it takes you. Who knows, maybe you will love to teach, or somehow start your own business in aviation, maybe fly biz jets, work for the government, airlines..... whatever it is, when you get there you will know if it is worth it or not (if not, then make a change).

I was a cop for 13 years and I would not have changed any of it. Many people I have come accross that wanted to be a cop had ideas of what the job was, but really had no clue. Usually, they would get the reality slap very soon, as we all did. Some could hack it and made it work and others got disillusioned and left for something else.

At times I loved it, hated it, laughed, cried, was angry, excited..... Sound familiar to all the pilots out there???????? But in the end, I liked what I did and kept on keepin on. When it was time for me to move on, I did, with no regrets. Some of my coworkers thought I was crazy to leave the security of my job. The money was good, Benefits great, supervisor position with great people working for me. I just knew that it was time for me to go after another dream. Life should never be about having regrets (not realistic but idealistic). So if you are in a fortunate position to make a go of it, do it.

As I would tell all new recruits, this career is an experience with many endings. It is up to the individual to find what they like and create their own ending.... Same could be said about Aviation as well, wouldn't you think?? There are no guaranties, only possibilities.

Good luck...

[Beechlover]

PGA07, I am one of those guys who very recently decided to "take that leap of faith." The short of it is, my wife and I quit our well paying jobs, moved from OKC to Florida where I am now just beginning my flight training program. If your curious as to how I got to this point, I invite you to please read my postings I've made over the past few months. The one thing I love about this forum are the folks who have had so many experiences (both good and bad) and are so willing to pass them on. It most certainly helped me to decide.

The one thing I would say is this.., if it's been with you your whole life, then it's NOT going to go away. Follow it, do what inspires you, sure be smart about it.., plan for the worst (financially) and hope for the best (what ever "best" is to you).

And for me.., it has EVERYTHING to do with faith, it just depends on where your "faith" lies.

Wish you all the best. Gotta go, going flying today!!!