HELP!

[Trinity320]

Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to say this is one of the most informative and entertaining sites I've ever been on regarding flying. Even tho I've done tons of reading and a lot of my questions have been answered, I couldnt resist the urge to post my current situation in hopes of some good feedback.
Im 23, been out of school a yr, have my bachelors, and have a decent job where i never really know how much i'll make bc its all based on commission...however its an opp to probably be able to pay for a good amount of all of my flight training in a short amount of time. (i know this is sounding painfully typical!!)I should have my private finished by October...and I can't wait to continue training. I actually really enjoyed ground school adn it seems like all my free time is spent scheming on ways to do this, learning more about planes and the industry. I know things are bad right now, but I really cant think of anything else I'm nearly as passionate about. I know I have the aptitude to succeed in a lot of fields, but having been out of college and working a job i dont feel fullfilled in and dread waking up for everyday is not the way i want to live. I'm living at home with my parents, pay them about 300 bucks a month rent, and pay all my other bills on my own, including paying as i go for my private. Naturally, I make decent money but havent seen it since its all been going to flight school (which is a good thing bc if im poor now i figure life as a pilot will be a lil more bearable).
I'm currently taking a course to prepare for a test for graduate school, but its really not in my heart, i dont knwo what i would go back for, and id much rather do the flying.
I'm def scared but i dont know what else to do. After my private is done, I wasn't sure if I should go to ATP or Skymates, or look into joining the ANG. I have a female friend who is an airline pilot and has connections with a lot of wing commanders countrywide who need more women to fly for them, she speaks really highly of the guard. Sounds great to me, but I wonder what the catches and dowsides are as well. ATP and Skymates sound good too! Civilian or Military?
The info on financing on this site has been great too. I'm in a rush slightly, bc im not 18, but dont want to be 50k deep either in 3 or 10 months, so I think id be willing to hold it out for a year to save. Goign to Osh for the first time and i cant wait...the airline industry may be crap right now but the more i learn about flying and the more people I meet the more excited i get. Pilots rock. Any advice for a newbee would be really appreciated!!

[Bandit_Driver]

Keep your current job.
Bank a lot of Cash
Buy your own airplane
Fly for fun...

If you really want to make a career out this be prepared not make any real money for at least 5+ years after getting your CFII. If you are getting into this job for money, glamor, etc you will be saddly disappointed. If you want the job because you love to fly then you might make it.

Sorry if this sounds too negative but this industry just isn't what it was. All that is left is the flying.

[Trinity320]

Thanks Bandit.
Of course I want the job bc i want to fly. Yes I am only halfway through my private, but i think that even if i never made it to the majors or never made over 60k-70k a year at this job it would still be worth it, because it is the flying that is what is so great.
I think all of us have shiny jet syndrome to an extent but to be honest flying little cessnas around is still totally thrilling to me.
I'm scared bc i see everyones struggles and i see how tough it is. However, I also see a lot of people older than me who are still wondering what if. My only regret at 23 is that I didn't start sooner. I dont know what the future will bring, but I am so grateful to have aviation a part of my life right now, even just starting out and goin at it part time, it gives me that warm fuzzy feeling inside. I may be young and naive, but I dont know what else is worth following, or at least giving a shot at.
The only thing I do know and what I do see so far is that regardless of everyones situation on these forums, from captains to 0 timers, totally differeing opinions and bickering, or just plain straight advice on how to survive in the industry, people are doing it for the love of a shared interest, and big time. I know in the industry i work in currently, there are a few good doers but it seems most people are doing it for the money and they always want a little more. there is so much backstabbing and schmoozing. I dont see passion there, I just see people trying to use the money to justify why they are spending 1/3 their life doing what they're doing. I have more money now than i did 5 years ago but when i look back 5 years ago the last thing i remember was how i didnt have that much money for things, i remember most the people i met and the things i did and accomplished. Bottomline is, Im still too new to the real world so i can only go by what ive experienced in the past and its why its great to have every1 here to listen to. Thanks for your imput and honest feedback. I know I can only hope to be one of the lucky ones, but it seems there's only one way to find out.

[Flying Ninja]

Hi Trinity320,

I noticed that you're almost a neighbor of mine. I'm a Long Islander myself. So you want to fly for a career. Great! You've done your research and are now asking questions. Awesome! I can totally relate to the passion of flying and once you get your PVT, you're going to realize just how friggin' cool it is to grab that Cessna and island hop to Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket on a whim. It's the best feeling in the world. You're young (and I don't mean to say this offensively) so time is on your side. My advice to you from the start is, what is the second thing you want to do in case the aviation career doesn't work out? I don't know your situation, but living on Long Island is expensive. The reason why people around here work so much and do the back stabbing thing is because if they don't, someone else will, and they will get the loot. I don't konw if you've been looking around for apartments and/or buying a house but you need to put down at least $100K if you're going to get any kind of a reasonable interest rate on your mortgage. That said, my first question to you is, are you prepared to move off of Long Island and leave your family and friends behind? More than likely, once you get your time, your first job will be with the regionals. Think long and hard about this. Flying is awesome. But flying as a career is nothing but a drag from what I hear. Many of my friends who fly felt that passion and energy for the first 6 months, and after that, it's just another job, and you don't make a lot of money and you sacrifice your qualify of life.

Consider this. I don't know how much you make now so we'll use a round about figure and you can apply to your current situation. Let's say you're going to make $50K for the next 5 years plus a 3% cost of living increase. That means you'll be bringing in GROSS of $265,456. If you fly for an airline like ASA, in 5 years as a first officer, you'll bring in GROSS of $144,900. That's a difference of $120,556. Sounds like a down payment on a mortgage doesn't it? Granted, this is an over simplification and you'll be taking home less due to taxes. However, my point is this. With a first officer salary, it is not very likely that you will set foot living on Long Island on your own. So be prepared to live away from Long Island for the next 5 years at least.

Since you live so close to me, why don't you PM me if you're interested in talking in person or over AIM. I'd be happy to give you things to consider, and even help you with your PVT if you like.

[Bandit_Driver]

Originally Posted by Trinity320

Thanks Bandit.
Of course I want the job bc i want to fly. Yes I am only halfway through my private, but i think that even if i never made it to the majors or never made over 60k-70k a year at this job it would still be worth it, because it is the flying that is what is so great.
I think all of us have shiny jet syndrome to an extent but to be honest flying little Cessnas around is still totally thrilling to me.

Be sure to do your homework on where to work and don't sell yourself short just to fly a jet. SJS is a dangerous thing if you let it cloud your judgment and you become willing to do anything to get into one (i.e. buy your job, type rating, etc). This will only undercut those trying to fight to turn this industry around.

At 23 you are not that old and still in a good position for the industry. I didn't start flying until I was about your age and didn't have a flying job until I was 27.

I have been very fortunate to be to where I am at today. It has been a lot of hard work, networking, and some luck. I have many friends that I graduated with that are furloughed, changed regionals several times (not usually a good idea), eternally a regional FO because upgrades are crawling.

Don't be in too much of hurry to get into the airlines. You really get some experience as a CFI, Freight Dawg, Jump Plane pilot, etc before going to the airlines. You can't teach or buy experience.

Here is how my career went so far and yearly income

• Flight School & Aviation BS Degree 96-99
• 2000 CFII $8000
• 2001-2003 Part 135 Freight Dog about $20000-25K/yr
• 2003-2005 Turboprop & Jet regional 2003-2005 $23-25K
• 2006 121 Cargo Airline 45K-50K