Airline Pilot

[JamesFL350]

Hey, great website!!! I had pretty much given up my dream as a pilot untill I found this website!
I'm 21 years old and about to graduate this year with a degree in Physics from a UK university. I have applied to NATS, (UK ATC service), the selection tests look fairly tough, but if I get a place I'm hoping to use this as a stepping stone onto becoming a pilot.
With the money I make as an ATC I'm planning to pay off my loan, and then start flying lessons again, (i've done 10 hours worth so far).
If I dont make it as a ATC I'm going to find a graduate job instead.
Does this sound like a good course of action???? Also, how important are grades when applying to be an airline pilot. Mine are ok, but could be better. What are the chances of getting into somewhere like Flight Safety for an International student?

Thanks James

[pkrgod]

For being a pilot, grades dont matter just your degree. Also, Im pretty sure flight safety will take anybody, as long as you have a loan or a lot of cash.

[NTXPilot]

Looked into any of the cadet programs? That's the first place I would start if I lived over there.

[skydog]

With a degree in Physics you are likely to be able to find a job that pays much better than being a pilot, and have a better home life on top of it. If you absolutely have to fly, then get a PPL and fly for fun on the weekends. It will be much more satisying than flying for a living.

[JamesFL350]

Thanks for the replys, I still really want to fly, and dont mind starting at the bottem flying cessnas or whatever and working my way up. However, if being a pilot really is that unsatisfying I'll take up flying as a hobby for now and see how it goes.

[Texguy]

I agree with skydog. Until pilot pay and quality of life improve (for most but not all of the flying jobs out there) I plan to just keep it a hobby. Being poor for several years and gone half the time including weekends and holidays isn't worth it to me. And with the state of the industry, being furloughed from any US airline is a real possibility.

Things might be very different for UK pilots, though...

[blee256]

Originally Posted by Texguy

Things might be very different for UK pilots, though...

????

when you say UK university, I am assuming University of Kentucky or Kansas? right? jayhawk or wildcat? tubby smith or roy williams (ok, bad example)

[bike21]

Austin Powers? United Kingdom methinks

[Bigey]

Originally Posted by JamesFL350

Thanks for the replys, I still really want to fly, and dont mind starting at the bottem flying cessnas or whatever and working my way up. However, if being a pilot really is that unsatisfying I'll take up flying as a hobby for now and see how it goes.

Here bro, BEST WORDS of advice:

Do what you want to do with your life, dont do what others think you should do.

Pay sucks? Yeap! Crappy work rules? Yeap! Tough industry? Absolutely!

Do i still want to fly for a living? NO DOUBT! I got a bug that is with me and i cant get rid of it!

[BobDDuck]

Uh oh... Somebody's back on the Kool Aid again. The cure? More Cowbell.

[Bigey]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Uh oh... Somebody's back on the Kool Aid again. The cure? More Cowbell.

Haha yeah i know! Sure sounds like im drinking the kool-aid.

However, i dont mean it as you might of taken it.

My word of advice; Do whatever makes you happy even if it might not make you financially sucessful.

[jtrain609]

You don't have a damned clue, Bigey.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

You don't have a damned clue, Bigey.

and why not? care to explain?

Do what you want to do with your life, dont do what others think you should do.

and

Do whatever makes you happy even if it might not make you financially sucessful.

are statements that i'd totally agree with...unlaced with kool-aid aviation wise...having all the money in the world does not always make a happy person (altho you don't hear them complain much).

of course, neither of those statements should be construed as "take the low paying job" whatsoever!

[jtrain609]

They are easy statements to make at 16, and I said the same things. Money doesn't mean much, that's true and I also very much agree. But all the other hardships that come along with being at an airline put a real strain on a persons life. I don't mean to come off preachy, 'cause that's not my intent at all, and certinally not towards you because you understand the strains I'm talking about much more than I do, I'm just saying at 16 it's real easy to say those things and not think about the ultra high divorce rate amoung airline pilots. Maybe that number doesn't matter to some people, though, and they're willing to go through three wives (or husbands) for this career.

[Bigey]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

They are easy statements to make at 16, and I said the same things. Money doesn't mean much, that's true and I also very much agree. But all the other hardships that come along with being at an airline put a real strain on a persons life. I don't mean to come off preachy, 'cause that's not my intent at all, and certinally not towards you because you understand the strains I'm talking about much more than I do, I'm just saying at 16 it's real easy to say those things and not think about the ultra high divorce rate amoung airline pilots. Maybe that number doesn't matter to some people, though, and they're willing to go through three wives (or husbands) for this career.

Oh comon brother. Im not saying anything that's out of the ordinary.

Now if i came off saying OMG BEING A PILOT IS THE BEST THING!!11 I'd SO GO TO GULFSTREAM or something, then you could say that. Seriously, this is one TIME you cant throw the age thing out there. I said basic things. Do whatever makes you happy. This has nothign to do with age, just a basic thing people do in life. And dont let others tell you what to do, that also is a basic thing. Live your life, the way you want to live it.

Now, i didnt say, dont take the bad with the good. Just an inbetween statement. I never said anything that the life is good or bad. Just "life" in general statements. And NEITHER of these things have anything to do with EXPERIENCE in life. I dont need to be 40 years old to say "do what makes you happy."

[jtrain609]

Yeah nevermind.

[Flying Ninja]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

Money doesn't mean much...

If there's anything I would disagree on, it would be people making statements like money doesn't mean much. I've been in both places. Right now I'm on the side where I have no money. I'll tell ya, I'm miserable. You never see a homeless guy decline money in the streets. I wonder why. You don't have to have a million dollars but it sure would make things easier.

[Polarbear]

Well Im just about 10 years older than bigey and I have to agree with him that money doesn't mean much. When I was younger, my family was pretty afluent in the bay area, and I have some of my worst memories from then. Some of my best memories are from times when I was eating raman noodles as main courses, but doing what I wanted to do.

Ninja, if you are so miserable there are three possible things wrong:

1. You are not happy doing what you do.

2. You place money way to high in your list and no matter how much you make, you will never be happy.

3. A combination of both.


Find something you love and go after it and concentrate on the positive. Your life will seem much happier if you do. If all else fails, read my signature and know it is true.

Bigey, never lose the passion and energy you have for the subject you love. If you keep it you will be happy no matter how much money you lose or how far off you go from your chosen path. The biggest thing my father taught me (by example, not his words) is if you hate your job or whatever you do, you will ruin the lives of the people around you and the ones you love.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Polarbear

Well Im just about 10 years older than bigey and I have to agree with him that money doesn't mean much. When I was younger, my family was pretty afluent in the bay area, and I have some of my worst memories from then. Some of my best memories are from times when I was eating raman noodles as main courses, but doing what I wanted to do.

Ninja, if you are so miserable there are three possible things wrong:

1. You are not happy doing what you do.

2. You place money way to high in your list and no matter how much you make, you will never be happy.

3. A combination of both.


Find something you love and go after it and concentrate on the positive. Your life will seem much happier if you do. If all else fails, read my signature and know it is true.

Bigey, never lose the passion and energy you have for the subject you love. If you keep it you will be happy no matter how much money you lose or how far off you go from your chosen path. The biggest thing my father taught me (by example, not his words) is if you hate your job or whatever you do, you will ruin the lives of the people around you and the ones you love.

, to a point. If you're at the point where you can't make enough to eat, then I could see how one would be unhappy, but really, if you're making enough to house yourself and pay for your house, food, and children, what's an extra few bucks if it's at the expense of your happiness? Money isn't everything, although it does help... But I'd venture to say most of you would rather be poor and happy than rich and miserable.

[Flying Ninja]

I'm not doing anything other than looking for a job right now. And I am dirt poor now. Maybe I am putting money high on the list but honestly, I think rich and poor is a matter of perspective. My point is, people rather have money than without. In a capitalistic society, it's about money. Happiness can be bought by money, but I've never seen a laughing fool turn his inner smile into cash without a job. I'm not saying to go get that $250K job and never see the outside of your office. I'm saying that having money on hand (rich) is certainly better than not having any (poor). Anyway, it's semantics. It all comes down to one thing. If money doesn't matter, why look for a job? Why go to college? Why do people get better at what they do so they can make more money? If money didn't matter, we'd all be happy sitting around a camp fire and sleeping on straw.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Flying Ninja

Happiness can be bought by money,

No it can't. Money is a hygiene factor. It can't act as something that will make you happy, it'll only keep you from being unhappy by lack of money.

[Flying Ninja]

We can argue this all day long. Obviously some people feel differently like myself. I know I was pretty damn happy before with a good paying job and flying on the weekends at my leisure before I sunk myself chasing my dream. Now I'm jobless, dream turned nightmare, with monthly loan payments, and running out of money, I KNOW HOW I FEEL WITHOUT MONEY. And I KNOW HOW I FELT when I had money. I can tell you I was happier then with money than without it today.

"And that's all I have to say about that..." --Forrest Gump

[wheelsup]

Ninja,

You're arguing with someone in college. I agree with you - having money is certainly extremely important. If it weren't, pilots and others wouldn't be pissed at paycuts. We would all work down in Florida at a bar at night, and sleep in a hammock all day.

Once Chris leaves the sheltered life of being in college, if he has to support his way in life, he'll understand. I'm not talking living at home with mom and dad, I'm talking cutting all ties. It's a totally different world out there - worrying about making rent, food money, gas money to get you to work, etc. Unfortunately, money IS everything. Having a "few bucks" left over should go to retirement, not making rent each month.

FWIW, I worked two jobs back after high school during the summer before college. One as a receiver at a grocery store (in the back, unloading trucks and accepting vendors) 6AM to 2PM, then a break, then 7PM to 11PM at UPS loading airplanes. I got 8 hours of sleep, and it was split between two sessions of four hours each. I was also doing my private at the same time.

That lifestyle was rediculously hard, and I was at home with my parents, who did all my errands for me (ie food shopping, etc.). I couldn't imagine a life of 2-3 years of that (and that's without paying taxes, LOL).

Any chance you could sue ERAU? I flew with a former flight safety guy who did their "direct track" program back in early 2000, and he recently won a lawsuit that covered all of his expenses there. They didn't deliever as promised. I'm not someone that likes lawyers, and hate frivilous (sp?) lawsuits, but you may have a case here.

[Flying Ninja]

I've already spoken to a lawyer regarding my situation and he did say that I do have a case. I'm not inclined to sue anyone just yet. My face isn't quite deep in the mud yet for me to want to play that card. However, he did say that the more complaintants I get with the case, the stronger the case will be since it won't be just me complaining. However, given that most people will be more interested in keeping reputation in the industry than get their money back, I suspect I'll be alone. We'll see.

Thanks for sharing your story. It's nice to have someone else that understand what I was trying to get at.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Once Chris leaves the sheltered life of being in college, if he has to support his way in life, he'll understand. I'm not talking living at home with mom and dad, I'm talking cutting all ties. It's a totally different world out there - worrying about making rent, food money, gas money to get you to work, etc. Unfortunately, money IS everything. Having a "few bucks" left over should go to retirement, not making rent each month.

With all due respect, wheelsup, I *do* fully support myself. I pay my own rent, car costs, gas, etc. It entails working 40+ hours a week over 4 days and going to school the other three, so I'm well aware what the "real world" is like. And I'm not saying that having no income at all doesn't matter, I'm saying that once you're able to pay for your basic needs (food, shelter, transportation, etc), you can be happy. In my opinion, making $500k a year isn't going to make someone happy who wasn't happy making $50k a year. Having a big TV and a nice car are great and all, but does it make you feel self-fulfillment? Perhaps it's just me in a dream world, but I like to think that in the end, I won't based my satisfaction with how much money I make, but whether I have lived on my own terms.