Evaluating Flight Schools

mwink13 · February 9th, 2005, 00:30

Just like to take a moment to introduce myself and ask for some advice. I am a 26 year old professional contemplating pursuing a career as a pilot. I have done quite a lot of research into the industry over the last couple months and am still interested enough to take it a step farther and evaluate some flight schools. I have used this board as well as some other sources available to me and have narrowed my list of potential schools. I recently set up visits to a local school, some FBO’s, as well as a few national schools (ATP Riverside, Flightsafety, etc…). What I was hoping is that some of you may take the time to give me some sort of advice/checklist of things I should be asking/looking for why visiting these schools. This is obviously a major commitment so I want to make sure that I have made a good decision (whatever that may be) based on the best information available. I appreciate any help that can be given and really appreciate all of the knowledge the members share with the rest of the board. Thanks in advance, Matthew.

kellwolf · February 9th, 2005, 00:48

#1 dig past the glossy ads at the bigger schools. Try to find several of the students out of earshot of management and ask them about their experiences with the school. Don't be swayed by a "bridge program" or a "fast track" program. While these MAY help, they generally cost more money and have hidden clauses in them. For instance, you might get the bridge program only after instructing for a year, when you might have enough time to apply for a better job anyway. Check out the maintenance on the aircraft. If the school is more concerned about keeping airplanes in the air than fixing them the right way, you're setting yourself up for trouble. Most importantly, find a flight instructor (be it an academy, FBO, independent contractor, etc) that you get along with and feel comfortable with. I'd recommend easing into a career change by getting your private first. It's possible (even though it might not seem like it right now) that you might start and decide an career in aviation isn't what you thought it would be. It's better to be out $5K than $35k.

Windchill · February 9th, 2005, 17:33

minds_warped · February 12th, 2005, 12:29

Kellwolf says it best. Look beyond the glossy adds that will end up costing you a pile of money. I almost went to one of those schools. They wanted over $2k just to check me out in their aircraft, familiarization, procedures, local area, etc. I bought a sectional and terminal chart, and an airplane manual for around $40. Checkout done.
Also, the airlines don't give a rip about where you fly. All those academies simply have partnerships with some regionals and can guarantee an interview. Go to a local FBO, get your private, then decide what to do. You will seriously save thousands of $$$$$ by going the FBO route. Also, find a school that has a couple twin planes, and will hire you when you're done, if you want to instruct to build hours.

wheelsup · February 12th, 2005, 21:34

I know you're looking for a "checklist" so to speak for evaluating schoosl, however I'd like to throw my $0.02 into the mix and recommend two schools for you to check out (if you haven't already done so).

ATP - a former student of mine went there, got his instrument through MEI, and is currently instructing there. He's already got more multi than me and is working about 100/hr per month - 95% of it multi. They currently have a LOA with ExpressJet that allows the CFI's to interview/get hired @ 500 TT. Now, even if this LOA goes away, you're still looking at having a boatload of multi (and obtaining it quickly) if you can get on as a CFI (and at 26 you should be well off - they hire mainly 'older' people, not 19 year olds). Downside is you make $1000/month plus a small bonus for checkride passes as an instructor and may have to wait a few months to get into the plane. Total cost including doing your private before enrolling is somewhere in the $40k range.

Mesa Pilot Devleopment - A lot of people will frown on me mentioning this place, but I've seen it work first hand. 250 hour or less pilots going into the right seat of an CRJ (no joke). The ab-initio hire rate is currently floating around 95%, which is better than ATP's hire rate for students cum instructors. I'll step away (and likely someone else will mention the downside of having 250 hr pilots in a jet) from the political aspects of low timers in jets and say that I'd much rather be "building time" in a CRJ vs. light single and twin. Total cost is hovering around $60k including living expenses and the associates' degree from San Juan College for the 19 month program. Bonus - you fly a 6-seat 300 hp "primary trainier"

.

I went to a "big academy" 4 year aviation school and must say that I was disappointed after graduating. I would've preferred to go to the above mentioned schools 1000x more than be at a big school - all they do is squeeze the money out of you.

kellwolf · February 12th, 2005, 23:26

I gotta step in and say that between the two schools wheelsup mentioned, I'd go ATP. Worse case scenario you're a CFI with that program. Hiring on the magic 8 ball outts MAPD is "outlook not so good" or "reply hazy, ask again later." I was gung-ho on the MAPD program until Mesa more or less stopped hiring, and the two main airlines they have contracts with are teetering on the brink. If you're gonna drop that kinda cash, drop on something that you could get a job with after you finish the school.

mwink13 · February 13th, 2005, 00:53

Guys thank you for all of the advice. Everyone that participates on this board is truly great. I have been a long time lurker and am several months into researching my options. My plan as of now is to get my ppl at a local FBO then move forward from there. I think it will save me some money and give me a good idea on how much enjoyment I will get out of flying. However I am visiting several schools over the next couple of months just to see them in person. I have been told/read enough about several big name schools (I will not name any names to avoid any arguments) to know they are not for me. If anyone else has some advice on specifics to be looking at while on location of the schools I have selected I would appreciate it. Thanks again guys for helping make this process much easier.

Matthew

LAX_Airport · February 14th, 2005, 18:13

Hey, hey, hey! (In a Fat Albert voice....)

Also, one thing I learned about "The Industry" is to beware of:
Signing a contract and Voiding out of a contract. Some schools charge $2000.00 if you cancel out for any reason. So, as they say in Germany, Achtung! (Caution!)

Athena · February 16th, 2005, 01:43

Just a reference for you,
Ohio State University's program (part 141) minimums estimate the cost at 36k but more realistically around 40something. They are replacing their fleet gradually. Even on the oldest highest hour aircraft I always felt 100% about the maintenance. IF you have any more questions let me know.

DE727UPS · February 16th, 2005, 01:54

"I'll step away (and likely someone else will mention the downside of having 250 hr pilots in a jet) from the political aspects of low timers in jets and say that I'd much rather be "building time" in a CRJ vs. light single and twin."

Do you really think the Jet Capt you're paired with wants to be working with someone "building time in a CRJ". That's really sick.

SUSPilot · February 16th, 2005, 02:30

Matthew

I teach at one of the flight schools in St. Louis. PM me if you want any information. We would be willing to work with you to get you your Private Pilot Certificate, and if you chose to stay with us, all the way through your Commercial Single and Multiengine and all of your CFI ratings. We can work with you to get you finished as fast as you want, depending on how much you plan on flying.

wheelsup · February 17th, 2005, 23:17

[ QUOTE ]

Do you really think the Jet Capt you're paired with wants to be working with someone "building time in a CRJ". That's really sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

As crazy as that sounds, that's the mentality of the younger students coming out of the program...crazy, eh?

~wheelsup

February 9th, 2005, 00:48	#2
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,687	Re: Evaluating Flight Schools #1 dig past the glossy ads at the bigger schools. Try to find several of the students out of earshot of management and ask them about their experiences with the school. Don't be swayed by a "bridge program" or a "fast track" program. While these MAY help, they generally cost more money and have hidden clauses in them. For instance, you might get the bridge program only after instructing for a year, when you might have enough time to apply for a better job anyway. Check out the maintenance on the aircraft. If the school is more concerned about keeping airplanes in the air than fixing them the right way, you're setting yourself up for trouble. Most importantly, find a flight instructor (be it an academy, FBO, independent contractor, etc) that you get along with and feel comfortable with. I'd recommend easing into a career change by getting your private first. It's possible (even though it might not seem like it right now) that you might start and decide an career in aviation isn't what you thought it would be. It's better to be out $5K than $35k.

February 9th, 2005, 17:33	#3
Windchill Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Mid-Atlantic, KMRB Posts: 1,925	Re: Evaluating Flight Schools

February 12th, 2005, 12:29	#4
minds_warped Newbie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 28	Re: Evaluating Flight Schools Kellwolf says it best. Look beyond the glossy adds that will end up costing you a pile of money. I almost went to one of those schools. They wanted over $2k just to check me out in their aircraft, familiarization, procedures, local area, etc. I bought a sectional and terminal chart, and an airplane manual for around $40. Checkout done. Also, the airlines don't give a rip about where you fly. All those academies simply have partnerships with some regionals and can guarantee an interview. Go to a local FBO, get your private, then decide what to do. You will seriously save thousands of $$$$$ by going the FBO route. Also, find a school that has a couple twin planes, and will hire you when you're done, if you want to instruct to build hours.

February 12th, 2005, 21:34	#5
wheelsup Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: _ Posts: 5,372	Re: Evaluating Flight Schools I know you're looking for a "checklist" so to speak for evaluating schoosl, however I'd like to throw my $0.02 into the mix and recommend two schools for you to check out (if you haven't already done so). ATP - a former student of mine went there, got his instrument through MEI, and is currently instructing there. He's already got more multi than me and is working about 100/hr per month - 95% of it multi. They currently have a LOA with ExpressJet that allows the CFI's to interview/get hired @ 500 TT. Now, even if this LOA goes away, you're still looking at having a boatload of multi (and obtaining it quickly) if you can get on as a CFI (and at 26 you should be well off - they hire mainly 'older' people, not 19 year olds). Downside is you make $1000/month plus a small bonus for checkride passes as an instructor and may have to wait a few months to get into the plane. Total cost including doing your private before enrolling is somewhere in the $40k range. Mesa Pilot Devleopment - A lot of people will frown on me mentioning this place, but I've seen it work first hand. 250 hour or less pilots going into the right seat of an CRJ (no joke). The ab-initio hire rate is currently floating around 95%, which is better than ATP's hire rate for students cum instructors. I'll step away (and likely someone else will mention the downside of having 250 hr pilots in a jet) from the political aspects of low timers in jets and say that I'd much rather be "building time" in a CRJ vs. light single and twin. Total cost is hovering around $60k including living expenses and the associates' degree from San Juan College for the 19 month program. Bonus - you fly a 6-seat 300 hp "primary trainier" . I went to a "big academy" 4 year aviation school and must say that I was disappointed after graduating. I would've preferred to go to the above mentioned schools 1000x more than be at a big school - all they do is squeeze the money out of you.

February 12th, 2005, 23:26	#6
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,687	Re: Evaluating Flight Schools I gotta step in and say that between the two schools wheelsup mentioned, I'd go ATP. Worse case scenario you're a CFI with that program. Hiring on the magic 8 ball outts MAPD is "outlook not so good" or "reply hazy, ask again later." I was gung-ho on the MAPD program until Mesa more or less stopped hiring, and the two main airlines they have contracts with are teetering on the brink. If you're gonna drop that kinda cash, drop on something that you could get a job with after you finish the school.

February 9th, 2005, 00:30	#1
mwink13 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: St. Louis, Mo Posts: 9	Evaluating Flight Schools Just like to take a moment to introduce myself and ask for some advice. I am a 26 year old professional contemplating pursuing a career as a pilot. I have done quite a lot of research into the industry over the last couple months and am still interested enough to take it a step farther and evaluate some flight schools. I have used this board as well as some other sources available to me and have narrowed my list of potential schools. I recently set up visits to a local school, some FBO’s, as well as a few national schools (ATP Riverside, Flightsafety, etc…). What I was hoping is that some of you may take the time to give me some sort of advice/checklist of things I should be asking/looking for why visiting these schools. This is obviously a major commitment so I want to make sure that I have made a good decision (whatever that may be) based on the best information available. I appreciate any help that can be given and really appreciate all of the knowledge the members share with the rest of the board. Thanks in advance, Matthew.

February 13th, 2005, 00:53	#7
mwink13 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: St. Louis, Mo Posts: 9	Re: Evaluating Flight Schools Guys thank you for all of the advice. Everyone that participates on this board is truly great. I have been a long time lurker and am several months into researching my options. My plan as of now is to get my ppl at a local FBO then move forward from there. I think it will save me some money and give me a good idea on how much enjoyment I will get out of flying. However I am visiting several schools over the next couple of months just to see them in person. I have been told/read enough about several big name schools (I will not name any names to avoid any arguments) to know they are not for me. If anyone else has some advice on specifics to be looking at while on location of the schools I have selected I would appreciate it. Thanks again guys for helping make this process much easier. Matthew

February 14th, 2005, 18:13	#8
LAX_Airport Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: So Cal Posts: 76	Re: Evaluating Flight Schools Hey, hey, hey! (In a Fat Albert voice....) Also, one thing I learned about "The Industry" is to beware of: Signing a contract and Voiding out of a contract. Some schools charge $2000.00 if you cancel out for any reason. So, as they say in Germany, Achtung! (Caution!)

February 16th, 2005, 01:43	#9
Athena Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northwest State of Mind, WA Posts: 477	Re: Evaluating Flight Schools Just a reference for you, Ohio State University's program (part 141) minimums estimate the cost at 36k but more realistically around 40something. They are replacing their fleet gradually. Even on the oldest highest hour aircraft I always felt 100% about the maintenance. IF you have any more questions let me know.

February 16th, 2005, 01:54	#10
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,521	Re: Evaluating Flight Schools "I'll step away (and likely someone else will mention the downside of having 250 hr pilots in a jet) from the political aspects of low timers in jets and say that I'd much rather be "building time" in a CRJ vs. light single and twin." Do you really think the Jet Capt you're paired with wants to be working with someone "building time in a CRJ". That's really sick.

February 16th, 2005, 02:30	#11
SUSPilot Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Baseball City, USA Posts: 367	Re: Evaluating Flight Schools Matthew I teach at one of the flight schools in St. Louis. PM me if you want any information. We would be willing to work with you to get you your Private Pilot Certificate, and if you chose to stay with us, all the way through your Commercial Single and Multiengine and all of your CFI ratings. We can work with you to get you finished as fast as you want, depending on how much you plan on flying.

February 17th, 2005, 23:17	#12
wheelsup Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: _ Posts: 5,372	Re: Evaluating Flight Schools [ QUOTE ] Do you really think the Jet Capt you're paired with wants to be working with someone "building time in a CRJ". That's really sick. [/ QUOTE ] As crazy as that sounds, that's the mentality of the younger students coming out of the program...crazy, eh? ~wheelsup

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