ok.. really burned out.. and i've got a Q..

[Tokyo007]

hey guys - long time lurker

Ok here's the rundown and I need advice from those who have "made it" <--(paid airline pilot)

I'm 26, single, and working on my CSEL. I have been working my butt off with school full time (2 year degree, flight tech. pro pilot degree SLCC) and working full time and haven't had much time to fly these past few years (~190 hours)

I've been working on this airline career thing for the past 3 years and have made a sloooow progress at it but i'm not in debt, with a little savings (~$4K) and I hope to finish the CSEL soon.

I've gotten really burned out so I quit my full time job and got a part time job at skychefs at the airport here in SLC, but even after asking for part time the company gave me 40 hours! with hours starting at 5:45am..I guess a new order hit the company and they need me working the hours, it's not easy finding jobs and i'm hating it... i'm completly burned out and frustrated. The only contacts as far as networking i've made with pilots (one I thought was Doug in a MD-90 for a second.. scared me for a sec.) but mostly that's just been hello's and how was the landing..I don't have time to talk to pilots

i'm serious about being an airline pilot, and I watch this site along with many others trying to figure out what I should be doing.

My question is (finally sorry), why not just quit the job/school and do the loan and sprint to the end? true there's no CFI job waiting for me but i'm 26, still living with the parents and day by day I keep asking myself if i'm doing the right thing? conservative no loan? sprint to the end? I have zero multi time, just 190 hours in a CH2T with about 3 hours in a complex (arrow). I can't keep going at this pace or i'll be 30 something as a CFI..in your experience do the guys that took out the loan make it? make better pilots working on flying full time? I want to be the best pilot, not just landing but regs and be a safe pilot but right now i'm just getting by with a x-c here and there every week or 2.

advice? h-ee-l-p

frustrated,

Matthew Chidester
www.geocities.com/SoHo/Village/4584/

[Bandit_Driver]

Since you are only 26 you have plenty of time and the industry is just begining and upward turn. What I would do is try to get a job you can tolerate until you can obatain your CFII and maybe your MEI. Then find a CFI job and quit your other job. Since you are living at home with no debt keep it that way. I just got rid of my Credit Card debt from flight training and still have a another 20k to go from the federal govt. Your life at a regional will be a lot more tolerable with no debt.

Also, once you get your ME rating beg, borrow and steel for ME time. The time requirements are starting to come down. You should be able to get a job in a couple of years with 800 - 1000 TT and 100-200 ME.

I would fly after or before work 4-5 days a week and in order to get my training done ASAP....

Send me a pm if you want to chat....I started my schooling when I was about 24 and was with regional at 29....you should be able to do it a little faster....

Good Luck

[Tokyo007]

Thanks bandit,

yeah I know i'm in good shape.. just this company I started working for this week ugg.. like today I had to be there at 5:45am.. got home at 12pm.. typed up my original post, took a nap at 3pm.. just got up at 10:45pm and I get to do it all again tomm. meanwhile last time I flew was July 5th! (this is not good)

but thanks for the reply that is a really good plan, I know multi time is the gold stuff, my current CFI has his hours but only needs his multi time to make it but with a family and one little one on his way he's stuck with major debt and no $$..

but I think i'll follow that advice and stay out of debt for the twin time.. if I have energy go to the temp agency on friday and try and find something real quick, I don't need the money right away but last time I was unemployed was 6 months!
all I wanted was a fun part time job with connections that went super sour real quick

anyway thanks for replying, it's so hard doing full time school work and trying to fly i've got tons of respect for those who have made it!

Matthew
(I am THIS close to calling the bank asking for $20K but I need all the advice I can get ..)

[smokey1]

Take out the loan and get it done. I Started flying in March and I just got my MEI last week, and a MEII checkride later on this week. The faster you train and bang out those ratings the faster you can start instructing.

Smokey

[Tokyo007]

wow you started from scratch in march and you're now working on your MEI?? flip..this is year 3 and i'm about 50 hours to go to 250 total.. ugg.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I know I keep thinking save the loan for multi time or.. screw it and just go for it.. (arg)

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

Matthew

[Tokyo007]

woops I meant your MEII not MEI.. still wow impressive.. you're going light speed compared to me! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Lima_Charlie]

I agree with doing your best to stay out of debt. Life is definitely easier w/out a bunch of debt hanging around your neck. However, in your case, you are so close to the end, that I think taking out the loan might be a good idea. You are past the "expensive" part of your training, except for the multi-engine rating. So taking out a few thou might just help get you to the finish line!!

One idea might be to talk to the FBO manager, and negotiate a discount for a large block of flight time, both to finish your CPL, and ME ratings. That way you would know exactly how much $$$ you would need. Just a thought... Good luck

[Tokyo007]

Thanks Lima_Charlie

Yeah I'm leaning towards loan.. haven't totally decided but I'm thinking i'm *with* CFI I need around $12,000 more.. give or take a little.. the hard part is trying to figure out exactly what CFI is going to take part 61.

Plus if it's possible to get a loan (stafford?) and not pay on it until my degree is done.. I don't know thanks everyone for advice i'm weighin' everything right now.. I like the idea of saving the loan for multi time but at the same time i'm not getting any younger.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Matthew

[kellwolf]

With the training loans, you have two deferrment options. Interest only or full payments. They don't have a deferment like college loans unless you're going somewhere like Riddle, UND, or another college with flight training. At least, that's the case if you're talking about Sallie Mae's Career Training loan. Not sure about Key Bank or the other options.

[RiddlePilot]

Yeah, that's the biggest thing about Sallie Mae's career loan...you can't defer it. You CAN, however, defer Key's alternative loan for 6 months after you finish at the school.

As for what the CFI under Part 61 will cost...how far are you going? Are you planning on getting your MEI on top of CFI/CFII? The initial costed me somewhere in between $6000-7000 alone, but you could probably do that in less since I'd taken a pretty long hiatus from flying prior to starting. The CFII is taking roughly $1000-$1500, and I hear the MEI is around $2000.

[Tokyo007]

Well here's the loan i'm currently looking at:

key bank loan

if that doesn't work it's at this web page link.. hope it works:

http://www.key.com/templates/t-ps2.j...odeID=H-1.32.c

it's via key bank.. the interest is variable but i'm going to the bank to figure out exactly what the details are..I guess our school works with these people (salt lake community college)

but to answer your question riddlepilot, I'm not sure exactly how far to go.. I have really good relations with the flight school i'm at and they have hired within, but my main thing is how far is too far with the loan? I'd like CFI, CFII.. your initial only cost you $6000? wow that's doable.. it's hard to gauge part 61 and the req as far as my first initial CFI.. hard to figure out costs when there isn't a hour req.

i've got 190 hours total.. 3 complex like I said.. 59 hours to go.. prices are:
$70hr in a CH2T
$120 in a arrow (I figure i'll do the remaining 50hr. for my commercial + instructor $30 an hour.. so $150 for the remaining 50 hours..need 10 hours complex plus checkride must be in a complex as far as I know..)
dutchess is $170..so there's the multi add on cost (who knows the hours)
sim.. $25..
instructor like I said before is $30hr
$4000 in savings..

haven't flown in a month due to a job that is driving me nuts and finals which are kicking my butt.. BUT i'd really like to get it over with and be a CFI by spring (long shot?)

Matthew

(wow.. your CFII only cost $1000? .. MEI $2000? maybe I should do those first..can you do that as far as initial? so many questions [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img].. thanks guys [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Smilecrunch.gif[/img])

[RiddlePilot]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd really like to get it over with and be a CFI by spring (long shot?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if you get that loan and bust some ass, you could easily get your CFI by spring.

[ QUOTE ]
(wow.. your CFII only cost $1000? .. MEI $2000? maybe I should do those first..can you do that as far as initial? so many questions .. thanks guys )

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, you can do those as initials. I personally did ASE as mine, but there are a number of people on this board who did CFII or MEI as their initials (mtsu_av8er and pilot602 ring a bell).

By the way, those figures for CFII/MEI I gave you are based upon my experience so far (CFII checkride this week), so they might not be perfectly accurate. These are add-ons for me as well, so don't expect your initial to be that cheap (sorry [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]). Results may vary.

[Cosmo1999]

Screw going into debt. I paid as I went and never regretted it. I still dont. Id rather be able to at least enjoy decent meals then spending money paying off loans.

[Andrew415]

Yeah I would take out a loan and if your livivng with parents you dont really need to worry about bills and stuff and u can focus on paying off loan, while looking for a instucting jobs..

I'm doing it a really screwed up way. I'm 17 and doing homeschool and have a full time job, so i make like 20 grand a year and get all my credits so by 19 or 20 I should be done and can have all that money saved for flight training and online degree thing..

Good luck tho, you can do it.. I sometimes think, why the hell do I wanna be a pilot it takes sooo long...But think, soon as you get your job on a Regional/Major airline you will never have to pay for training again and you will have tons of exciting years ahead and actually enjoy what your doing, theres not many jobs like that...

edited by Kristie: Please do not change the subject to something that cannot be recognized, it makes it hard to answer the question!

[scoobs]

I was wondering how you like working for Skychefs besides the schedule, I was thinking of applying? Also how do you like SLCC flight program? I currently attend and was thinking of getting my private from them.

Thanks

[Tokyo007]

It's almost a pro vs. con on the whole loan issue I know.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

basically my story is - back in 2000 my first trip overseas to Hong Kong for a few weeks just to get out of Utah. I had never been away from the house or on a trip on my own like that.. even tho cathay pacific lost my luggage and all I had was a camera wallet and passport I had a blast.. I got hooked on the travel bug and went to Tokyo 8 months later for a few weeks but that's where it really hit me was the flying and how professional and amazing a few guys get paid to fly something so big, so long, and land in on the other side of the ocean.. those pilots getting off the plane looked so cool and .. I knew I wanted to be a airline pilot.. .. always loved airports and airplanes. My dad was a flight instructor in the Airforce (t-38) and my grandfather flew the B-29 over japan.. so since then i've gone the no debt route and i'm proud of my progress but i'm 26 like I said before and i'm not getting any younger.. I feel like the clock is ticking and i've got to do something different because this is year 3 approaching 4 and it's just taking way too long.

but I am taking everyones advice and looking at all the options (thanks riddle/cosmo/andrew yeah i'm leaning towards loan finally so we'll see.. good luck too)

Matthew

scoobs - I originally applied for skychefs part time and they are hiring right now if you're interested (HR keeps asking me if I know any friends).. main main problem that started this is I applied part time to fly more.. they offered the job with a schedule starting at 3pm~11:30pm thurs.-sun. so I thought it would be a good fit.. instead since i've started (it's been about a month) they've had me working 5:45am~2:15pm.. around 40 hours a week! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] and I haven't flown a lesson in a MONTH! argg..no sleep, schools kililng me with finals and i'm this close to calling it quits and going unemployed (looking for work!)

the pros - I get to look in the cockpit here and there.. say hello to pilots (just hello.. no time for talking..) and i'm able to look at these planes close up like I never have before.. i've always been into plane spotting and this is better than watching on the other side of the fence..flight attendants for the most part are nice (and pretty [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] almost fell in love with one lady from clevland.. pht lucky pilots.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img]).. I feel bad because we're always in their way and making a racket in front of passengers and it seems if Delta had any brains they would cater their own aircraft because we waste so much money throwing away everything they don't use! If I could run a company I for sure could do it better than skychefs..

the cons - moral at skychefs is in the dumps.. the hours are only posted weekly so it's near impossible to plan for flight lessons.. they fire you if you screw up on anything.. i've seen one driver fired for missing a cart and another driver asking to be demoted and a pay cut for less stress.. they don't work with family or school very well and like I said before they don't care about the airlines as long as they cater them. The drivers are overworked with zero time to spare..so if you don't mind hard work.. no a/c in the trucks.. it's worth a shot to try it.. I'm glad I got to see the life on the ramp but this job.. eh.. I can't do it and fly esp. when I have been overscheduled and skychefs didn't follow what they offered. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

on SLCC - it's a great program, not for multi time (long story) but for the basic ratings it's really great - i'm working on my associate of science in flight technology and if you click on my web page you can see pics of the plane (alarus). It looks a little goofy but the avionics are pretty nice. The people there and CFI's look out for you and they hire within. Plus you train out of Salt Lake City (class bravo) so you get good practice on radios and dodging airlines, i'd just go in there and ask for a intro flight I think it's $50 and see if you get a warm fuzzy feeling like I did. It's $70 an hour wet, $30 for the instructor right now so that will get you and idea of how much a private could be (maybe $4K~$6K roughly? depends) Hope that helps [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

woa long post.. and I have to be at work soon.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

edited by Kristie: subject title changed back to what it was originally.

[CLR4ILS]

Mathew,
Take a look at Mesa's PACE program. I have two friends there now that have said it is solid. It is quoted at $12,000 but many have finished under budget.

It is worth a look..ILS

[Cosmo1999]

yo matt stop stressin about this and do what you do best man!! Dont make me come back out of retirement there and give you another IFR stage check!!

[Tokyo007]

lol! woa nelly <--(utah swear word)

mmm... someone knows who I am [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img]

mmm.. i'm thinking this is a mesa pilot or skywest pilot.. i'm thinking more Ryan mesa pilot than Spencer skywest since I don't think I did an IFR check with Spencer [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] I know no debt is the way to go.. that's why i've had the worst time trying to decide..

If this is who I think it is you'll have to e-mail me sometime! Let me know how you're doing and what you have been up to!

anyway I put in my 2 weeks at work, i've had it with that place - time to get serious and get going - making a appointment with the money people monday woo hoo thanks everyone for all your help.

Matthew
good to see you again