changing careers

[wifeofawannabe]

I'm new here and looking for a little advice. My husband is looking to become a pilot full time. He currently has his privates. He is 36 and we have 4 kids 6yrs down to 10 mos. He is looking at going to the fasttrack at F.S. I give him my blessing, the only concern other than the money is should we all go with him or stay home in Atlanta and visit a few times a month? Also, do most students have other jobs while going to school to help make ends meet? I know the ultimate decision is ours...I'm looking at the best for a family.

Thanks for your help,

The Wife

[music]

Well I think you came to the right place but as you will see your questions will not be answered in a few quick sentences. I would suggest he read EVERY article on the main page then read as many threads as he can. It took me a while to find this site but after I did it was like everything else I learned was WRONG. Take your time and do your research.

GoodLuck

[mtsu_av8er]

[ QUOTE ]
He currently has his privates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I certainly hope so..... Welcome to the forum, wifeofwannabe!!

First of, thanks for supporting your husband - that's an important thing!! You're going to hear alot of folks give their different opinions, so just remember to take them all for what they're worth!!

Are you a full-time Mom, or would you have to find a new job in the event that you move with your husband?

Also, Flight Safety is a great school. That being said, have you researched very many others? Why exactly did you narrow it down to that school??

[Bandit_Driver]

I am glad you are supporting your husband. It will make his transition to the airlines a little bit easier. There are so many things you will have to consider, I will try and list some things you need to think about below. Also, remember that there is no pilot shortage and there never will be. This is a great myth.

I do not know what your financial status is but you will probably have to go back to work full time in order to suppliment his training and pay after training. Also, your husband can get a flexible part time job during training (if time permits). The best jobs are usually at the FBO's as he will be able to network with corporate pilots.

Your husband after graduation may have to instruct for awhile in order to obatain enough time get the the guaranteed interview or FO position at the associated regional / commuter airline. During the first several years of his employment he will not make that much money. The typical regional FO starts out around 20K/year (some places a little more some places less). Out of the 20K you will need to factor in all of your bills plus the following:

1. Unfirom, luggage, flight bag, misc pilot supplies
2. Parking fees (not always paid by the employer)
3. Crashpad / hotel (if commuting to work)
4. Dining out daily (you can't always take food with you)
5. Travel fees (not all travel is free)
6. FAA Medial Exams

HOME LIFE:
You also need consider the quality of life you and your children will have. If your husband decides to commute that will cut into the time he has with you and the kids. If you live where he is based that can save money and allow him to spend more time at home. This is especially true if he is placed on reserve (very common for new hires). Also, be prepared to move. The company can change your husband's base at their discretion and most will pay some moving expenses if he is forced to move. However, if selling of house is involved you may be forced to eat a loss depending on the market and how long you have lived in it.

There are several websites that I will list below that are a good source of info and support from the wives of pilots.

Professional Pilot Families

FCAPA - Families of Commercial Airline Pilots Association

Don't be afraid to send me a PM if you have any questions....

[ATP]

If you haven't already, check out fcapa.org.

D'oh. Bandit_Driver beat me to it.

[Sir_Captain]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm new here and looking for a little advice. My husband is looking to become a pilot full time. He currently has his privates.
The Wife

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFLMAO!!!!

[Bandit_Driver]

LOL

[Cosmo1999]

huh huh huh huh huh you said privates

[Doug Taylor]

Serious question there guys...

[mtsu_av8er]

[ QUOTE ]
Serious question there guys...

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry...I started it.

[wifeofawannabe]

I do stay home full time with the kids and will homeschool this year. We are looking into a student loan which scares me because I'm understanding there is very little money going into a commuter if you even get hired after graduation.

Thanks,

The wife

[wifeofawannabe]

He did research into other schools on his own and said this is the only one that would take his privates license into consideration and that would take off some of his schooling time and the fact they have a fast track and he could graduate in maybe 6 months.

[MDPilot]

Just realize that after 6 mo of training, he's not going to be eligible for one of those low-paying regional jobs, he's first going to have to spend a year or two (or more) at an even lower-paying CFI job. There are no shortcuts in this industry.

[sbe]

Not trying to sway any decisions here, just offering a suggestion. Not knowing your financial status, I'm going to go ahead and assume that with a stay at home mother and four children, the academy route might be mighty risky. As has been stated, he'll have a stretch of instructing, which can be barely survivable financially as a single person living with roomies (let alone with a family to support), before he even gets to the next step (cargo, regional airline, whatever he chooses).

Having that kind of obligation at home as well as student loans for a fairly pricey (albeit good) academy could be financially crushing.

At his stage in life, he might be best served to continue his work full time and train on the side locally. You can do this relatively quickly - not in 6 months mind you, but you can go as fast as you are willing to depending upon how much you apply yourself to studying and flying. At the same time, you still have income coming in. Use that time to save as much money for the lean times as possible, and at least start out instructing part time until you get a good base of students built up.

I have a lot of respect for those who can give up careers cold turkey and go into flying full time, but I personally decided it was not for me. I just cannot take that kind of financial risk, and will not assume that kind of debt.

Best of luck!

Sarah

[SteveC]

Sound advice and well-said, Sarah.

I'm also doing the "slow" route, keeping my day job until a reasonable full-time flying gig opens up. Hopefully soon.

[wifeofawannabe]

Well my spouse has said that he would rather not be an instructor. He believes that if he doesn't go to the academy it will be a lot harder and longer until he flies with an airline. Also, the school said that they have the contacts and ASA is one of the few that will hire directly out of fast track. I agree that if he can do his flying on the side than we can still support the family...however I can see that he's physically at work but definitely not mentally. The school makes it sound like once you graduate you may not get a job right away, but the new fleets are coming in and they are in need of pilots. Is it too good to be true even though we know financially it will be tough?

[MDPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
Well my spouse has said that he would rather not be an instructor. He believes that if he doesn't go to the academy it will be a lot harder and longer until he flies with an airline. Also, the school said that they have the contacts and ASA is one of the few that will hire directly out of fast track. I agree that if he can do his flying on the side than we can still support the family...however I can see that he's physically at work but definitely not mentally. The school makes it sound like once you graduate you may not get a job right away, but the new fleets are coming in and they are in need of pilots. Is it too good to be true even though we know financially it will be tough?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever heard of "marketing"? That is what you're basing your family's financial future on. Call the school up and ask what percentage of people who have completed their MEI training and interviewed for the "Fast Track" program have actually ended up hired and flying at ASA. Then you will have a fact you can base your decisions on, not marketing hype. Frankly, I see the odds of you spending $40K on training and still have no job at the end at about a 90% probability.

[A300Capt]

[ QUOTE ]
The school makes it sound like once you graduate you may not get a job right away, but the new fleets are coming in and they are in need of pilots

[/ QUOTE ]

That line has been used since Wilbur and Orville Wright first flew.

This needs to be said...

In my opinion, your husband needs to seriously reevaluate his priorities. Just starting his training at his age and with four little mouths to feed, puts him at a severe disadvantage right out of the gate. That's an understatement!

The road to an airline career can be a very long and fustrating experience. Most people who start out with that goal never achieve it for a variety of reasons. Some of which is of no fault of their own. The pitfalls are everywhere and we all tend to hit one or two of them along the way. The lucky few that do make it to their first paying job are often shocked and disappointed with their starting salary after all their hard work.

Most people build time by becoming CFI's at poverty wages. Not everyone enjoys it but it was almost always a necessary rung on the career ladder. To say that you'd rather skip that phase and acccept the off chance belief that a Regional airline will hire you after graduation from some fancy pilot mill is a risk most folks in your situation wouldn't accept. Your husbamd will "graduate" with maybe a couple hundred hours of flight time that won't amount to squat in the real world beyond the pearly gates of his school.

Your husband is rolling the dice in an all or nothing proposition with the odds stack heavily against him in succeeding. As MDpilot said, there really are no short cuts in this career field. This is a very true statement.

The fact of the matter is, most airlines are hurting finacially and have been for a number of years. The outcome of some legacy carriers are in doubt and so are the careers of thousands of very qualified pilots that could saturate the market in the near future. Some would say the field is already saturated.

Pay at every level of aviation is almost laughable until you move to the left seat at the Regional airline level or senior position at a very good corporate flying job. With the majors not hiring you won't see any movement at the Regional level. Can you and your family survive finacially making $20,000/yr for several years and that's if you get hired at a Regional? How many years are you prepared to wait for a Regional job anyway? Most importantly, do you have a fall back plan in case this aviation endeavor doesn't pan out? The bank would probaly like to know.

While I can understand your husband's desire to fulfill his dreams, be very careful it doesn't turn into a nightmare. Aviation is a very cyclical career field. Don't believe anything those pilot schools tell you. They want your money and will play on your hopes, dreams and emotions to get it. Very few people flow into a Regional job from those schools. Most leave with the realization that they have a long road ahead.

[sbe]

[ QUOTE ]
...however I can see that he's physically at work but definitely not mentally.

[/ QUOTE ]

wifeofawannabe:

I 'checked out' of work mentally a few years back. Unfortunately, I think if you were to do a formal survey you would find one heck of a lot of Americans are unhappy with their jobs. I see it in every field - there are even airline pilots on here that aren't happy.

I started flying a couple years ago. At that time, getting out of the corporate world could not happen fast enough. However, I still had no desire to take on the kind of debt one takes on at the academies, with the industry in the state it was and has been in. I fly on the side, and continue in my current job. It's that - a job. My boss says it best (and she is great): your job is not you. It is not what your life is. It is a paycheck. It supports your family. Now if you enjoy it - all the better. But what is "you" are your interests, your hobbies, your passions, your family, and your friends.

Don't let the dislike of a job lead to decisions that will be regretted for a lifetime. I'm working on my CFI right now, and again although it's been slow, I am in no hurry due to the fact the industry isn't in a great hiring mode anyways. Taking my time has allowed me to develop perspective and slowly figure out where I want to go with this. And, I've had the great fortune of being able to pay cash for all my ratings.

The big money students pay to go to the academies support those slick marketing campaigns. I am a marketing professional, I know how it works. The magazine ads and brochures make you feel good, but they don't tell you facts. Make SURE you have facts before heading into this career - especially if he wants to bypass teaching. Nowadays, that is going to be a tall order.

Good luck!!

Sarah

[kellwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
Well my spouse has said that he would rather not be an instructor. He believes that if he doesn't go to the academy it will be a lot harder and longer until he flies with an airline.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't let the academies sell you on the hype. There are other alternatives. Just about every academy (FSI included) will tell you they are the ONLY or the BEST way to get to the airlines. Make sure you read all the small print.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the school said that they have the contacts and ASA is one of the few that will hire directly out of fast track.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, keep in mind that it's more money to take that FSI fast track program, it's highly selective, and it's subject to hiring at ASA. If Delta starts cutting back flights with them, they may stop hiring all together. Then you wind up in The Pool.

[ QUOTE ]
however I can see that he's physically at work but definitely not mentally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Been there, done that. I worked at theme parks and on the ramp for SWA while getting my private, instrument, and time building for my commercial. It sucks, but it's worth it in the long run IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
The school makes it sound like once you graduate you may not get a job right away, but the new fleets are coming in and they are in need of pilots. Is it too good to be true even though we know financially it will be tough?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rule #1 in aviation, if it sound too good to be true, it most certainly IS too good to be true. If you look closer into FSI, there's probably a clause that you have to flight instruct for X amount of time to even qualify for the bridge program. There are a few other routes out there. MAPD in Farmington, NM has a program to gives you an interview as an FO at Mesa. Downside is, you put all your eggs in the Mesa basket, which some people are okay with and some most emphatically are not.

[Bandit_Driver]

SBE & A300CAPT have said it correctly. Your husband has a very long road ahead of him. All the flight schools will paint a nice picture to get you in the door. Below is what I have done to get where I am today...

4 years at Western Michigan University to obtain a BS degree and all my ratings. Graduated in 1999

Finally got a CFI job in 2000 and earned about $8,000 while working there for almost a year. I have spent many nights sleeping on the office floor.

In 2001 I was hired to fly cargo aircraft shortly before 9/11. After 9/11 I ended up flying cargo for 2 1/2 years and making about 25K per year but I was flying 1000 hours a year. Again I spent many nights in our pilot lounge and on a friend's couch.

Spring of 2003 got married to a wonderful woman that works full time to help out so we can realize our dream of family and house. Which, I unfortunately cannot afford on my salary alone.

Winter of 2003 I was able to obtain a FO job for small regional airline flying the Saab 340 and I am making about 20 - 22K per year. Guess what again, due to commuting and other expenses I have spent nights in my car, on a friend's couch, and have made deals with local hotels for a reduced rate if I worked for them on the side.

I hate to say it, but many will agree, my career path and struggle is not that uncommon within the industry. Some have had it easier and harder but we all have had to sacrifice something to get where we are today.

JUST REMEMBER. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A PILOT SHORTAGE AND THERE NEVER WILL BE A PILOT SHORTAGE....

[StevenL]

I agree that it is great that you support your husband.

You have been given some excellent information and I don't know if I can really add to what has already been said.

What is best for the career, at your husband's age, is to train full time then instruct full time. Doing this he could be ready for that regional airline job in 2-3 years.

Alternatively, your husband could find a good FBO locally and do his training there. You probably wouldn't go into such huge debt and it will take longer. Your husband may even be able to instruct there when he is done training.

Either way you and your husband have to decide which is best for your family.

For me there was no question. I had to go the part time FBO route. I am 37, married and three children ages 5, 12 and 14. I have been at this for the past 5 years, 2 years training and 3 years instructing part time. I don't know what your finances are, but with mine I could never pay the mortgage, car payment, taxes, orthodontist, utilities, soccer, hockey, school activities, insurance, etc. and a flight training loan to boot, by instructing full time. I could put my foot down and limit what my children do, but that's not fair to them. They don't want this career, I do. I realize my children are older than yours and not all families have the same expenses as I do. But, your children will get older and you will have expenses associated with it. If you have to get a job, will you have to pay daycare? That's one expense I am glad we are done with.

My wife was supportive of this at first. She's still supportive, but not as much as she was 3 or 4 years ago. It's been a long haul on her. She is the one that has to take the kids everywhere. Soccer, orthodontist, doctor, cheerleading, drum lessons and so on. There's times she would rather I called it quits, but she is a saint and is hanging in there. My point is, it's not easy on the family when Dad is working full time and instructing part time. Not that it can't be done, it's just not easy.

Go into this with your eyes wide open. I did a pretty good sales pitch to my wife about this. I bought into some of the hype about pilot shortages. If my wife knew then what she knows now, I don't think she would have been quite as supportive. It's not that she didn't do her homework, she just believed me when I told her that I would have a job with a regional by the time I was 35, then 36 and now 38.

Best of luck to you and your husband.

[rausda27]

[ QUOTE ]
Just realize that after 6 mo of training, he's not going to be eligible for one of those low-paying regional jobs, he's first going to have to spend a year or two (or more) at an even lower-paying CFI job. There are no shortcuts in this industry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I belive she is referring to the ASA direct track program that FlightSafety offers, after completing the 141 CIME program they interivew with ASA, get a conditional offer of employment and do a intensive IFR multi course and Level D sim training. Upon completion they go off to class with whatever hours they have in their logbook...But as was stated above, it is highly selective and they only train per ASA needs. There are absolutely no guarantees witht his program which makes it risky, but from what I have been told the pilots that complete the program at FlightSafety have a near 100 % success rate at ASA.

[MDPilot]

[ QUOTE ]

Actually, I belive she is referring to the ASA direct track program that FlightSafety offers, after completing the 141 CIME program they interivew with ASA, get a conditional offer of employment and do a intensive IFR multi course and Level D sim training. Upon completion they go off to class with whatever hours they have in their logbook...But as was stated above, it is highly selective and they only train per ASA needs. There are absolutely no guarantees witht his program which makes it risky, but from what I have been told the pilots that complete the program at FlightSafety have a near 100 % success rate at ASA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me, I know what she's referring to. So after he spends 45K to get his MEI, then has a 5% chance of getting into and past the "interview", he gets a opportunity to spend another 25K in training that is needed to meet ASAs "standards", then (with about 200 hrs total under his belt) go to ASA and try and keep from washing out of ASAs RJ training. I don't call that whole process as a "sure thing." Will there be a few people who are able to make it? Yep. Would I want to bet my wife and 4 kids on it? Nope.

[rausda27]

I see your point, but it is never advertised as a sure thing, hence the inherent risk.