quick legal question

[c172captain]

is there any specific FAR that bans the entering and exiting an aircraft (assume a piston, SEL) while the aircraft is running?

[USMCmech]

Originally Posted by c172captain

is there any specific FAR that bans the entering and exiting an aircraft (assume a piston, SEL) while the aircraft is running?

No,

I've done it plenty of times, but only with pilots or mechanics. I would NEVER let a passenger try it.

However, if something happens, the Feds will hit you with "careless and reckless".

[jrh]

Originally Posted by c172captain

is there any specific FAR that bans the entering and exiting an aircraft (assume a piston, SEL) while the aircraft is running?

I don't mean to be a jerk, but shouldn't a pilot of your experience level know the answer to this already?

[Jbroz04]

I do it all the time in the cub with no electrical system!

[c172captain]

thanks for the responses

Originally Posted by jrh

I don't mean to be a jerk, but shouldn't a pilot of your experience level know the answer to this already?

is it possible that i've never had to deal with it?

[flyingmaniac]

There are a few flight instructors that do this with their students for their first time soloing.

[ppragman]

Originally Posted by c172captain

is there any specific FAR that bans the entering and exiting an aircraft (assume a piston, SEL) while the aircraft is running?

Nope, otherwise skydiving would be an illegal endeavor!

[Houston]

Originally Posted by USMCmech

No,

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However, if something happens, the Feds will hit you with "careless and reckless".

That is correct, but if "something happens", the FAA is going to be the least of your worries.

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by ppragman

Nope, otherwise skydiving would be an illegal endeavor!

[t-cart]

Originally Posted by c172captain

is there any specific FAR that bans the entering and exiting an aircraft (assume a piston, SEL) while the aircraft is running?

<---------I sure hope not, although not a piston.

[NickH]

Originally Posted by flyingmaniac

There are a few flight instructors that do this with their students for their first time soloing.

I assumed all instructors did this with their students....

[moxiepilot]

Originally Posted by NickH

I assumed all instructors did this with their students....

only the cool ones...

[jrh]

Originally Posted by c172captain

is it possible that i've never had to deal with it?

Sorry about my first post. I read your question right after getting home from a long day and it struck me in an odd way.


To answer the original question, there are numerous times when entering/exiting a running aircraft occurs:

Cropdusters
Skydivers loading into a jump plane
Various helicopter operations
Some corporate aircraft quickly dropping or picking up pax.
Handpropping vintage aircraft
Securing/unsecuring various items forgotten prior to engine start (wheel chocks, baggage doors, etc.)

I'm sure there are others, but these were the first ones to come to mind.

I don't ever do it with students because of the example it sets. I don't want them to see me (a person who is experienced at how to safely work around running aircraft) do it, then think it's ok for their passengers (relative newbies to aviation) do it after they get their license and are taking friends for rides.

[Zero1Niner]

Originally Posted by jrh

I don't mean to be a jerk, but shouldn't a pilot of your experience level know the answer to this already?

Boy, I hope this isnt a new standard. Are we supposed to know everything at some point? I think Im screwed.

[BajtheJino]

Originally Posted by Zero1Niner

Boy, I hope this isnt a new standard. Are we supposed to know everything at some point? I think Im screwed.

No, of course not. But it does go back to the idea of putting some effort into opening a book instead of getting on the internet to ask a question a person could find on their own.

[KSCessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by jrh

Various helicopter operations

Securing/unsecuring various items forgotten prior to engine start (wheel chocks, baggage doors, etc.)

As a line guy, I hated nothing more than dealing with helicopters. I had no real training on them, when the boss told me to go out and help direct a jetranger in, that was coming in for a hot fueling. I learned real quick that its natural instinct to duck, no matter how far above you those blades are.


Chocks, who gets out for chocks? Just add more power

[cencal83406]

Originally Posted by NickH

I assumed all instructors did this with their students....

Big no-no at ERAU. At the PRC location, we taxi over to another ramp, shut down, instructor gets out, re-start, and head out.

[jynxyjoe]

Originally Posted by cencal83406

Big no-no at ERAU. At the PRC location, we taxi over to another ramp, shut down, instructor gets out, re-start, and head out.

In fairness to Riddle, talk to the biggest, burliest team leader at Daytona Campus (team 1 if I remember right) why we minimize all contact with running props. Then ask him about his rebuilt shoulder.

It turns out that when a prop hits bone, it doesn't break, it shatters.

We did a lot of things at riddle because it was very tight in there, with 97 aircraft running from 6am-10pm. Student rushing around who aren't exercising a lot of common sense, probably not getting a damn bit of sleep between work and school and flying, and it's 100 degrees out and climbing. Believe it or not, a lot of the "riddle rules" were written in blood too.

[moxiepilot]

Originally Posted by jynxyjoe

In fairness to Riddle, talk to the biggest, burliest team leader at Daytona Campus (team 1 if I remember right) why we minimize all contact with running props. Then ask him about his rebuilt shoulder.

It turns out that when a prop hits bone, it doesn't break, it shatters.

We did a lot of things at riddle because it was very tight in there, with 97 aircraft running from 6am-10pm. Student rushing around who aren't exercising a lot of common sense, probably not getting a damn bit of sleep between work and school and flying, and it's 100 degrees out and climbing. Believe it or not, a lot of the "riddle rules" were written in blood too.

I believe that. When you have a busy environment the chances increase for potential hazards.

OTOH When done safely, with precaution there is nothing wrong with hopping out of the plane. Personally, someone must be at the controls if I hop out - otherwise it gets shut down.

[wjmiller3]

Originally Posted by flyingmaniac

There are a few flight instructors that do this with their students for their first time soloing.

I do it for every solo...

[shdw]

Originally Posted by BajtheJino

No, of course not. But it does go back to the idea of putting some effort into opening a book instead of getting on the internet to ask a question a person could find on their own.

Not so much for this question, since it would take a long time to find something that doesn't exist. But man some questions...you'd like the google rule: If you can find it in 5 min on google you lose speaking rights for xx time.

[Bsmiller05]

Originally Posted by flyingmaniac

There are a few flight instructors that do this with their students for their first time soloing.

Same here. On my initial solo at DCA (yea, yea...I'm well aware of the mistake on that one) my instructor jumped out of the still-running 152. But where I finished up the rest of my training, the primary trainer was a DA-20, and with the bubble canopy, I wouldn't recommend that seeing as once that gets opened, it would probably get slammed back from the prop wash even at idle.

Man, I wish I had been able to finish my CFI...discussions like this sound like fun.

[KSCessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by Bsmiller05

Same here. On my initial solo at DCA (yea, yea...I'm well aware of the mistake on that one) my instructor jumped out of the still-running 152. But where I finished up the rest of my training, the primary trainer was a DA-20, and with the bubble canopy, I wouldn't recommend that seeing as once that gets opened, it would probably get slammed back from the prop wash even at idle.

I've seen an instructor exit a DA-20 while it was running. I would never attempt it, but I suppose it can be done. Hold on to the canopy really well. I suppose it helps that the particular DA-20 had it's idle RPM set very, very low, so you were only looking at about 700 RPM at idle.

[mxflyer]

Originally Posted by jrh

I don't ever do it with students because of the example it sets. I don't want them to see me (a person who is experienced at how to safely work around running aircraft) do it, then think it's ok for their passengers (relative newbies to aviation) do it after they get their license and are taking friends for rides.

That's actually a good point. When I soloed students I sometimes just jump out and sometimes we'd go into the FBO. It depended on how hot it was that day. I never considered them doing it with their friends.

[Callador]

Check this video out if you want to see someone getting close to a prop. It is actually safe, just looks worse than in it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmV7oudGtuo

At 6:40 into the video they are docking and the guy is putting the rope on it. You can see the red pad with black stripes. Don't step on that!

I flew with these two when I was down there. Great pilots and funny too!