Over 8 hours of flight instruction...

[av8or91]

So what is the correct action to take if you do go over. I was at 7.9 yesterday, so it just got me thinking.

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by av8or91

I was at 7.9 yesterday

I think you already have your answer sir...

[ppragman]

Originally Posted by av8or91

So what is the correct action to take if you do go over. I was at 7.9 yesterday, so it just got me thinking.

No, you did 7.1 on day one, and 1.2 on day two. But I didn't tell you to.

j/k

[shdw]

They key is that the 8 hour rule doesn't specify when the start and end of the days can be. As long as you can make it work so that each 24 hour period is 8 hours or less you are safe. So if you had Monday and Wednesday off but instructed for 16 hours on Tuesday, 8 hours prior to noon and 8 hours after noon for ease, you can be safe.

You just shove some of those hours into the 24 hours from Monday into Tuesday and some into the Tuesday into Wednesday. So you would say from noon Monday till Noon Tuesday you did 8 hours. From noon Tuesday till noon Wednesday you did the other 8 hours. Make sense?

Drawing breaks lines in your logbook is one way to manage this, have fun wish I was flying as much as you.

[av8or91]

Originally Posted by shdw

They key is that the 8 hour rule doesn't specify when the start and end of the days can be. As long as you can make it work so that each 24 hour period is 8 hours or less you are safe. So if you had Monday and Wednesday off but instructed for 16 hours on Tuesday, 8 hours prior to noon and 8 hours after noon for ease, you can be safe.

You just shove some of those hours into the 24 hours from Monday into Tuesday and some into the Tuesday into Wednesday. So you would say from noon Monday till Noon Tuesday you did 8 hours. From noon Tuesday till noon Wednesday you did the other 8 hours. Make sense?

Drawing breaks lines in your logbook is one way to manage this, have fun wish I was flying as much as you.

Ok thanks, I did not know you could break up your 8 hour period like that.

[ppragman]

Originally Posted by shdw

They key is that the 8 hour rule doesn't specify when the start and end of the days can be. As long as you can make it work so that each 24 hour period is 8 hours or less you are safe. So if you had Monday and Wednesday off but instructed for 16 hours on Tuesday, 8 hours prior to noon and 8 hours after noon for ease, you can be safe.

You just shove some of those hours into the 24 hours from Monday into Tuesday and some into the Tuesday into Wednesday. So you would say from noon Monday till Noon Tuesday you did 8 hours. From noon Tuesday till noon Wednesday you did the other 8 hours. Make sense?

Drawing breaks lines in your logbook is one way to manage this, have fun wish I was flying as much as you.

That's bad juju, you cannot, and should not do that. The reg, which is 61.195a

"In any 24-consecutive-hour period, a flight instructor may not conduct more than 8 hrs of flight training."

So the word is "any" so you can't chose when one day starts and another ends.

[ppragman]

Originally Posted by av8or91

Ok thanks, I did not know you could break up your 8 hour period like that.

Nope.

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by shdw

They key is that the 8 hour rule doesn't specify when the start and end of the days can be. As long as you can make it work so that each 24 hour period is 8 hours or less you are safe. So if you had Monday and Wednesday off but instructed for 16 hours on Tuesday, 8 hours prior to noon and 8 hours after noon for ease, you can be safe.

You just shove some of those hours into the 24 hours from Monday into Tuesday and some into the Tuesday into Wednesday. So you would say from noon Monday till Noon Tuesday you did 8 hours. From noon Tuesday till noon Wednesday you did the other 8 hours. Make sense?

Drawing breaks lines in your logbook is one way to manage this, have fun wish I was flying as much as you.

I'm pretty sure this is not how the system works, otherwise the airlines would have you working 300 hours a month.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by av8or91

Ok thanks, I did not know you could break up your 8 hour period like that.

As others have pointed out, you can't break up your time like that. He is telling you how to falsify your logbook to decrease your chances of getting caught, not telling you what is legal.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by av8or91

So what is the correct action to take if you do go over. I was at 7.9 yesterday, so it just got me thinking.

plan accordingly and if you think you will go over, cancel the flight or tell the student upfront that the lesson might be incomplete due to the regulations. if they understand they will either cancel it or be willing to incomplete if you will go longer.

[anthenry]

Originally Posted by shdw

They key is that the 8 hour rule doesn't specify when the start and end of the days can be. As long as you can make it work so that each 24 hour period is 8 hours or less you are safe. So if you had Monday and Wednesday off but instructed for 16 hours on Tuesday, 8 hours prior to noon and 8 hours after noon for ease, you can be safe.

You just shove some of those hours into the 24 hours from Monday into Tuesday and some into the Tuesday into Wednesday. So you would say from noon Monday till Noon Tuesday you did 8 hours. From noon Tuesday till noon Wednesday you did the other 8 hours. Make sense?

Drawing breaks lines in your logbook is one way to manage this, have fun wish I was flying as much as you.

BAD NEWS! Do not do this. It is a rolling 24 hour period. I don't want to beat a dead horse, just want to make sure that there is no one out there that thinks this is ok.

[jrh]

Try not to get in to the spot of teaching too much to begin with.

If you do it accidentally, but want to log the time, go ahead and log it like you would for any other flights. You broke a reg, but what's done is done. It's not like you can take it back, so you might as well keep a record of your flight experience.

If you're really paranoid about a fed reviewing your logbook, seeing the overage, and getting you in trouble for it, just don't log it. There's no rule saying you have to log all the time you fly.



I can't recall when exactly, but I think somewhere along the past five years and couple thousand hours of teaching, I accidentally taught something like 8.7 hours in a 24 hour period. It's buried in my logbook somewhere.

If anyone bothers to find it, I'll shrug and say, "Sorry." Of course I would never advocate intentionally flying over the 8 hours or carelessly going over the 8 hours on a regular basis...but mistakes happen. There are bigger problems in life to worry about. I'd hope any FAA inspector you run in to down the road would understand this.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by jrh

I'd hope any FAA inspector you run in to down the road would understand this.

if you run into one just throw it in reverse and run over him again. 8 hours in 24 will be the least of his worries.

Yes kids its sarcasm. I respect the hard day`s work the fine folks at the FAA put in every month.

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by shdw

Drawing breaks lines in your logbook is one way to manage this, have fun wish I was flying as much as you.

That's just bananas. Stop it.

--------

Basically if you are beat, tired and hungry take five minutes to add up your hours for the day (if you can remember all of them). It takes a very long day of 1.2 flights to add up to 8 hours of flying.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by Douglas

That's just bananas. Stop it.

--------

Basically if you are beat, tired and hungry take five minutes to add up your hours for the day (if you can remember all of them). It takes a very long day of 1.2 flights to add up to 8 hours of flying.

Its not that hard. The time I nearly did it I had flown 5 hours cc returning at 2am. That gives you just 3 hours to fly the entire next working day.

[jrh]

Originally Posted by Douglas

It takes a very long day of 1.2 flights to add up to 8 hours of flying.

I don't think I've ever come close with regular lesson blocks.

The times to watch out for are multiple long cross countries in a day, and/or teaching late at night, followed by a full day beginning early the next morning.

[aloft]

And shdw's street cred takes another hit....

[RumpleTumbler]

Originally Posted by av8or91

So what is the correct action to take if you do go over. I was at 7.9 yesterday, so it just got me thinking.

Where do you work? Are they hiring?

[JEP]

Originally Posted by shdw

They key is that the 8 hour rule doesn't specify when the start and end of the days can be. As long as you can make it work so that each 24 hour period is 8 hours or less you are safe. So if you had Monday and Wednesday off but instructed for 16 hours on Tuesday, 8 hours prior to noon and 8 hours after noon for ease, you can be safe.

You just shove some of those hours into the 24 hours from Monday into Tuesday and some into the Tuesday into Wednesday. So you would say from noon Monday till Noon Tuesday you did 8 hours. From noon Tuesday till noon Wednesday you did the other 8 hours. Make sense?

Drawing breaks lines in your logbook is one way to manage this, have fun wish I was flying as much as you.

I don't have an exact req/quote in front of me, but I don't believe that to be true.Are you actually telling someone to break regulations and 'cook the books' if you will? WoW Just WoW!!!

Well here is the reg:

§ 61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.

A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:
(a) Hours of training. In any 24-consecutive-hour period, a flight instructor may not conduct more than 8 hours of flight training.

I would read that to be a rolling 24 hours....But whatever floats your boat I guess.

[nosehair]

Originally Posted by JEP

I would read that to be a rolling 24 hours....But whatever floats your boat I guess.

OK, here's how it goes: I'm the Fed:
Me: Let's see, from any 24-hour period...ok, let's look at the period from 6 am to 6 pm..ah, I see you flew 10 hours...you're busted.

You: Ah, but I am counting 5 of those hours from 6 to noon and 5 from noon to 6. (sly grin)

Me: You have the opportunity to surrender your certificate at this time, or wait for the Letter of Investigation and get legal counsel.(one-upman leer) Actually, the best legal way to handle this is simply stop instructing for a certificate or rating at the 8 hour mark. This first happened to me on a flight with a student heading back to the airport, when I realized we are going to go over the 8 hour mark, so I told the student I would not say any more to him and he would have to find his own way back, enter the pattern and land. Of course, I acted as safety pilot, but I did not log the time past my 8 hours in his log book as instruction. For a student pilot, this would be lost loggable time, but is the legal alternative.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by nosehair

OK, here's how it goes: I'm the Fed:
Me: Let's see, from any 24-hour period...ok, let's look at the period from 6 am to 6 pm..ah, I see you flew 10 hours...you're busted.

You: Ah, but I am counting 5 of those hours from 6 to noon and 5 from noon to 6. (sly grin)

Me: You have the opportunity to surrender your certificate at this time, or wait for the Letter of Investigation and get legal counsel.(one-upman leer) Actually, the best legal way to handle this is simply stop instructing for a certificate or rating at the 8 hour mark. This first happened to me on a flight with a student heading back to the airport, when I realized we are going to go over the 8 hour mark, so I told the student I would not say any more to him and he would have to find his own way back, enter the pattern and land. Of course, I acted as safety pilot, but I did not log the time past my 8 hours in his log book as instruction. For a student pilot, this would be lost loggable time, but is the legal alternative.

Preaching to the choir.......

[wrxpilot]

It's not that hard to keep track of your time... I regularly butted up against (but not over) the 8 hour rule when I was teaching. You know if you're going to have a busy day, and I'm assuming you are keeping track of the hobbs time (why wouldn't you?), so what's the problem?

[Blackhawk]

I have not seen this come up with the Feds, but I have seen this come up at an airline interview after the person's log book is reviewed. Your chances of being hired if this is seen more than once... about zero.
This could also come up during an accident investigation and unless you also cook the aircraft logbooks you're toast as it is easy for the Feds to go back and check aircraft times. If you are close to your 8 hours I can almost guarantee they will.
Sorry, my certificates ain't worth an extra .2 of flight time not to mention that I do not see someone giving effective instruction for 8 hours in a day.
Now if you unintentionally go beyond 8 hours of flying due to operational delays I would go ahead and log it in your logbook and make some notes in the remarks section as to why you went over. I would not make this a regular thing, however. By operational delay, say your last flight is blocked at 1.5 bringing you to 7.8 for the day. Due to extra holding, ground delays, etc you actually log 2.0 putting you over your 8 hours. If, however, it is clear prior to engine start that your last flight will put you over 8 hours it's time to CXL.
BTW, if the Fed does discover logbook falsification or intentionally going beyond 8 hours on a regular basis you could be facing emergency revocation, not suspension. Is it really worth facing that over .2??

[Socal321]

Originally Posted by av8or91

So what is the correct action to take if you do go over. I was at 7.9 yesterday, so it just got me thinking.

Don't take the last flight. If you're coming back to your airport on a long xc and go over 8 then you can't do anything about it. Fudge the number?

[Douglas]

[QUOTE=jrh;1325250]I don't think I've ever come close with regular lesson blocks.

QUOTE]


It's a whole lot of suck. I typically get cranky and cancel after 7.0 which = 16 hours of back to back.