10 hours complex for Commercial

[IslandFlyer]

Okay, quick question.

I've got a guy that just needs his 10 hours in a complex aircraft in order to meet the prereqs for the CSEL.

Must he log 10 hours dual in the complex, or can I give him a few hours, then give hime his complex endorsement, and let him finish the rest up by himself?

61.129(a)(3): 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least--

(ii): 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered,

Now that I'm reading it again, it's starting to make more sense to me. I think I've answered my own question, and am going to say yes, he needs 10 hours of training from me, in the complex. Just double checking with the reg gurus here on JC. Thanks.

[minitour]

"...training..."

Dual.

-mini

[bLizZuE]

I believe this was just changed too.

[bLizZuE]

Can't seem to find it now...I thought they just changed it to read 10 hours advanced instrument training...

[flyman128]

The 10 hours of advanced instrument training to replace the complex training is a proposed rule, not final yet. I believe it is open for comments until November 30.

[flyman128]

Here is the link to the NPRM:
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/pdf/E9-20957.pdf

Second page under 61.129.

[bLizZuE]

Hrmph. Didn't some just go into effect besides this then?

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by bLizZuE

Hrmph. Didn't some just go into effect besides this then?

Yes, on October 22. The current language re complex training is:

==============================
10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;
==============================

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by flyman128

The 10 hours of advanced instrument training to replace the complex training is a proposed rule, not final yet. I believe it is open for comments until November 30.

So after they ignore the comments as usual, it'll go into æffect on 12/1?

[firebirdswm]

I kept hearing from everyone that, being the FAA, it would take months to go into effect. Just got my first 1.8 in a Bonanza the other day. If this were to actually go into effect in the near future, I'd definitely put my training on hold so I wouldn't take as big a hit. Anyone have any educated guesses on how long this would actually take to go into effect?

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by firebirdswm

I kept hearing from everyone that, being the FAA, it would take months to go into effect. Just got my first 1.8 in a Bonanza the other day. If this were to actually go into effect in the near future, I'd definitely put my training on hold so I wouldn't take as big a hit. Anyone have any educated guesses on how long this would actually take to go into effect?

No way to tell. After the comment period there are so many different things that can happen, from seriously considering the comments all the way up to something more important coming up.

You can be pretty sure, though, that going into effect Dec 1 is neither usual nor likely.

[KSCessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by Mike H

So after they ignore the comments as usual, it'll go into æffect on 12/1?

Nope. That recent final rule, that took effect on 20 October, went through the NPRM stage back in late 2007, IIRC. I wouldn't look for this newest change to go final until sometime in late, late 2010, or early 2011.

[Mike H]

How about the requirement of using a complex airplane for the Commercial checkride? I don't remember seeing any change to that.

Eliminate the 10 hour training requirement for the complex a/c, but still require the complex a/c for the checkride?

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Mike H

How about the requirement of using a complex airplane for the Commercial checkride? I don't remember seeing any change to that.

Eliminate the 10 hour training requirement for the complex a/c, but still require the complex a/c for the checkride?

Why would there be a change to the PTS before there's a change to the regulation?

[Mike H]

Shouldn't the PTS change with the regulation?

As it now appears, there isn't any proposed change to the PTS

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Shouldn't the PTS change with the regulation?

As it now appears, there isn't any proposed change to the PTS

The two are on completely different timelines. With some exceptions that don't really apply here, changes in regulations legally require a public notice of proposed rulemaking (which is the stage we are at on this one), a public comment period, the publication of a final rule, and a "get ready" period before you have to comply with it.

OTOH, the PTS isn't subject to any of that and, from a legal standpoint, can be changed in a day. Flight Standards can wake up tomorrow morning and say, "Let's change the PTS this afternoon to put steep turns back in the instrument PTS" and it's done as fast as they can get it out the door. Unless, the FAA just feels like asking around about a new PTS task (which they probably do), there's really no such thing as a "proposed PTS change" in the same sense as a regulation change.

Don't worry. If the rule goes through, the PTS will change along with it.

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

Don't worry. If the rule goes through, the PTS will change along with it.

That would TOTALLY destroy my faith in bureaucrats

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Mike H

That would TOTALLY destroy my faith in bureaucrats

That's the problem with faith - it doesn't necessarily reflect reality.