Logging Landings

[LucasM]

To count X-C time to another airport for 135 mins (i.e. <50nm) do you have to count the landing say if a student you were flying with did the entire approach and landing without your help at all? You just make an entry in your logbook stating that you flew to X airport 10 miles away, as PIC, 0 LDGs. Would that still count as a legit X-C for 135 mins?

Same question above, but what about >50nm. If you log that you went there, and the time, as PIC but did not count the LDG, does it count for a rating?

Because my interpretation is that if you are not "sole manipulator" of the controls, then you do not log it. Which also made me wonder about airline pilots. How do they log the landings?

[subpilot]

You can log the landing if you want but it does not count for your currency. I personally don't count the landings if the student is flying and is post-solo but I still count the XC time. Logging the landing is not required in order to log any other aspect of a flight. The key is that the flight had a landing, not that you performed it.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by LucasM

To count X-C time to another airport for 135 mins (i.e. <50nm) do you have to count the landing say if a student you were flying with did the entire approach and landing without your help at all? You just make an entry in your logbook stating that you flew to X airport 10 miles away, as PIC, 0 LDGs. Would that still count as a legit X-C for 135 mins?

Same question above, but what about >50nm. If you log that you went there, and the time, as PIC but did not count the LDG, does it count for a rating?

Because my interpretation is that if you are not "sole manipulator" of the controls, then you do not log it. Which also made me wonder about airline pilots. How do they log the landings?

If you're thinking about that recent FAA Chief Counsel opinion about safety pilots not being able to log cross country time, IMO, that's the only place the analysis they use is applicable and it does not apply to cross country logging by CFIs.

IOW, so long as the flight includes a landing, the CFI can count it as cross country time even if the student does all the landings. To avoid confusion, the CFI's logbook entry probably should indicate that it was an instructional cross country with the CFI acting as CFI - if you have a column in which you list dual given, that should do the trick.

And you're right - in order to count for currency, the pilot logging it must be the sole manipulator of the controls.

[muffinman]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

If you're thinking about that recent FAA Chief Counsel opinion about safety pilots not being able to log cross country time,

Wait, What? I missed something??

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by muffinman

Wait, What? I missed something??

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...09/Gebhart.pdf

[muffinman]

Wow. I would have figured the exact opposite.

How the hell do you find these things?

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by muffinman

Wow. I would have figured the exact opposite.

How the hell do you find these things?

Forums like this one. There's enough people interested in this kind of stuff that someone will mention it somewhere. (Although I'm sure more than one person was ready to answer you question with, "Midlife has no life – all he does is sit around reading this stuff.")

There's actually been some controversy about this for a while. The defunct FAQ took the same position for a different reason. IMO, the bottom line is that Flight Standards decided that safety pilot time should not count to meet cross country requirements, Legal deferred to Flight Standards and interpreted the regs to get the result they wanted and Legal went along with it.

[Maurus]

Technically a non-currency landing should be logged by the instructor, but that is a debate that would never end.