Students that question your credentials

Alchemy · May 17th, 2004, 23:22

What's the best way to deal with students who question your credentials? Do most students do this? I sometimes wonder if I'm giving them a reason to question me....

I'm 21, and most of my students are 10-20 years older than me (at least). Some questions I typically get asked are "how long have you been instructing?", and "what's your pass rate on checkrides?". There's really no good answer for a low time CFI.....my answers to those questions would be 2 months and not applicable (no signoffs yet, but this thursday it will either be 0% or 100%).

Anyone else have this problem? I usually respond by saying I've been flying with this flight school for 3 years (did all my training where I currently work) and go on a little spiel about what a great school it is, and how i'm a product of the school, am intimately familiar with the fleet of aircraft, know the local area very well, etc etc.

As a student, I never asked my CFI what his pass rate was, how many hours he had, if he ever busted a checkride himself, etc etc because I felt it would be rude. I guess I never saw a need to question his credentials, and that's why I'm a bit concerned.

I also get asked all the time "so what do you really want to do in aviation". Everyone seems to ask this, maybe because of my age. I usually respond by saying I will go wherever the career takes be, but I enjoy being an instructor and plan to do this for at least 2 or 3 years.

Any other good responses to these types of questions? Am I being overly sensitive?

mtsu_av8er · May 18th, 2004, 00:21

I don't think that their rude questions at all. If you're discussing brain surgery with your doctor, would you not want to know about his or her background, experience and education? Everytime I have a new instructor, I make sure that I find out where (s)he trained, how long they've been flying and how many hours of flight time they have. Often, it can improve the educational experience for both of us.

We all want to be compensated for our service, and I think that each and every one of us deserve that. I think that you're doing the right thing by "selling" your experience with the flight school, aircraft and area. Instead of concentrating on your weaknesses (new instructor, etc), sharpen up those strong points!!!

Other than that, the only thing you can tell them is that you've passed an FAA checkride and demonstrated that you can safely and competently act as a flight instructor. That should be enough!!

viper548 · May 18th, 2004, 01:05

Actually it would be prudent to ask your instructor about his performance record, experience, pass rate, etc. I never did, I did my private through the chief pilot and for everything else I flew with multiple instructors.
I've been asked how long I've been a CFI, but not about my pass rate (haven't sent anyone for a checkride yet). The flight school I work at has self-examining authority for the instrument rating, and I usually teach instrument.
If someone questions your credentials, counter it with the fact that your training was recent, the CFI checkride is by no means easy, and you are very enthusiastic about instructing.

bushmaster · May 18th, 2004, 01:08

[ QUOTE ]
Often, it can improve the educational experience for both of us.

Instead of concentrating on your weaknesses (new instructor, etc), sharpen up those strong points!!!

Other than that, the only thing you can tell them is that you've passed an FAA checkride and demonstrated that you can safely and competently act as a flight instructor. That should be enough!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well put. Stay strong on your strong points. BE CONFIDENT IN WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

EDUC8-or · May 18th, 2004, 05:39

It's almost always going to happen. Here's an interesting twist:

My PPL instructor busted his PPL checkride. He didn't try to hide it, he was the one who told me about it without any questions. He wanted me to learn from his mistakes. He was an outstanding instructor, the best I've had.

I was his second student ever. At our first meeting, he sat me down, told me he was fresh off the CFI checkride, so his knowledge was fresh. He then told me about busting his ride, and how it was partially his fault and partially the fault of his instructor. He then said he wasn't going to let the same things happen to me and he would do his personal best so I could pass my checkride. After hearing this, I never doubted his abilities from day one.

E_Dawg · May 18th, 2004, 10:06

[ QUOTE ]
I'm 21, and most of my students are 10-20 years older than me (at least). Some questions I typically get asked are "how long have you been instructing?", and "what's your pass rate on checkrides?".

[/ QUOTE ]

Alchemy I have been asked the same things; 19 here... younger than some students' kids even.

I would think an older looking instructor would be asked these questions much less regardless of experience. Students are just trying to get a feel for whether we can handle the job.

Rod Machado had a great article a while ago about selling yourself as a young cfi. Here's the link if you're an AOPA member: Young CFIs. Basically it makes a point of turning weaknesses into strengths: 'I've been flying for 3 years, got my cfi 3 months ago, and I'm very enthuastic about flying. I have been involved in flight training since I started flying, and I know what it feels like to be a student.'

[ QUOTE ]
I also get asked all the time "so what do you really want to do in aviation". Everyone seems to ask this, maybe because of my age.

[/ QUOTE ]

I almost always get asked this question too... I think people just want to know you care about their training and not just about going to the airlines. I tell the truth, 'I honestly don't know; most likely airlines, but for now I am very enthuastic about instructing.'

Then again I have ZERO primary students so it must not be working

(starting at a new and hopefully busier place at SNA on Thurs)

viper548 · May 18th, 2004, 11:20

[ QUOTE ]
I also get asked all the time "so what do you really want to do in aviation". Everyone seems to ask this, maybe because of my age.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell them the truth. If you wanna go airlines, great. If you're a new CFI tell them that you'll be a CFI for a couple more years first. Unless you got hired and are awaiting a start date there's no reason a primary student shouldn't start training with you. If you have a start date, or have several interviews going on tell the student that you're in the interviewing process. That gives them the chance to decide if they want someone else. I did my first 2 lessons with a guy that got hired before I started with him. If I'd known he wouldn't be there to do a significant part of my training, I would have started with someone else.

Ophir · May 18th, 2004, 11:23

Alchemy, in one word: Humility. You need to have humility in your instruction. I have had a hard time on occasions justifying my position as a CFI. It has seemed to me that I wasn't qualified, after all I was still learning so much. If you tell your students that you don't know everything but you can assure them when something comes up that you are not clear on that you will get the correct answer by the next lesson, you provide them the trust they need to respect you.

It is amazing to me how much you learn as a CFI. I feel liike I didn't know anything until I have taught it now. The lesson I am learning though is you know more than your students and you always have something to give back to them. Of course the time and money they spend on you is extremely valauble but if you respect that, you will give them their money's worth.

My advice (and this is coming from a four month CFI) is to simply tell them the truth. You are in this because you are extremely passionate about it. You are excited to give to all your students the info you were taught and more. I tell all my students that at anytime they would like to switch instructors by all means feel free to do so. I believe that providing them with the best instruction, even if that if with someone else, is the best thing I can do for them. If we happen to work well together, far be it from me to stand in they way of the best thing for them. Once you have provided this option it really diffuses people like the ones who require a CV before they begin training with you.

Here's an anecdotal story: Last week a guy calls up and say he is interested in getting some Sim time, is there an instructor available. I volunteered for the mission.

I get in the sim with him and I learn he is a right seater for Citation Jet with tons of hours. He is about to go Flight Safety for some recurrent training and wanted to fly a Sim. I swallow hard knowing full well that he knows more than I. We start flying and by the end he says to me, "how long have you been instructing?" I reply " oh, just a bit more than three months." He comes back, "Well, you are great. I can see your enthusiam is really an asset. Thanks for refreshing my memory with many of those tidbits I had forgotten."

In the end he now wants to fly with me in the Sim more often and he wants to go out in a C-172 just to get some real stick time too. I have to admit, I go home and crack open the books and study up on what to give him for the next time around. But that is what I am in this for, to learn.

I hope that helps.

mrivc211 · May 18th, 2004, 11:31

I have students ask me all the time too. You win some, you lose some. It's tough but honestly, before you know it, you've got a year under your belt and when people ask you the same quetions you don't even flinch anymore. you just answer righ back at them and its the way you answer that also makes a difference. They see your confidence and that you look like you've been doing this for a while. Plus more than liekly a year from now your gonna be flooded with students thus if one thinks your not qualified you can tell him to take the boot! Hang in there!

Icelandair · May 19th, 2004, 10:50

I never get that but i instruct at my school where most of the instructors have recently graduated or are even still in their last years of the program.

farwellbooth · May 26th, 2004, 12:45

My instructor is 15 years older than me with over 6000 hours and I still questioned him. It's a lot of money! I figured with that time he's got to be looking for a job with at least health insurance...

mtsu_av8er · May 26th, 2004, 12:52

[ QUOTE ]
I figured with that time he's got to be looking for a job with at least health insurance...

[/ QUOTE ]

you could get some disabled veteran like myself with free VA health insurance.....or maybe he has a spouse/partner with bennies....

E_Dawg · May 26th, 2004, 16:10

MTSU dude that avatar is REALLY freaking me out

mtsu_av8er · May 26th, 2004, 17:56

In all honesty, I can't even look at it without laughing hysterically!!!

MidlifeFlyer · May 27th, 2004, 08:17

[ QUOTE ]
MTSU dude that avatar is REALLY freaking me out

[/ QUOTE ]Don't say that. It's his "friend".

Flying_Corporal · May 28th, 2004, 12:23

Those who ask this question generally have had a bad flight training experience somewhere else.

mtsu_av8er · May 28th, 2004, 17:08

[ QUOTE ]
Those who ask this question generally have had a bad flight training experience somewhere else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know...I've asked this question without having had a bad experience. To fly with a CFI and not ask questions is like buying a new car without asking the dealer to let you see safety reports.

Grabo172 · May 28th, 2004, 19:02

Almost everyone I fly with either as a CFI or if they are passengers asks about where I trained and how long I've been flying...

I tell them everything they want to know... they need to be comfortable flying with me and I like talking about my flight expirience

. Most are just curious about who they are going to be trusting their life to... not too much to ask IMHO

May 17th, 2004, 23:22	#1
Alchemy Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 1,793	Students that question your credentials What's the best way to deal with students who question your credentials? Do most students do this? I sometimes wonder if I'm giving them a reason to question me.... I'm 21, and most of my students are 10-20 years older than me (at least). Some questions I typically get asked are "how long have you been instructing?", and "what's your pass rate on checkrides?". There's really no good answer for a low time CFI.....my answers to those questions would be 2 months and not applicable (no signoffs yet, but this thursday it will either be 0% or 100%). Anyone else have this problem? I usually respond by saying I've been flying with this flight school for 3 years (did all my training where I currently work) and go on a little spiel about what a great school it is, and how i'm a product of the school, am intimately familiar with the fleet of aircraft, know the local area very well, etc etc. As a student, I never asked my CFI what his pass rate was, how many hours he had, if he ever busted a checkride himself, etc etc because I felt it would be rude. I guess I never saw a need to question his credentials, and that's why I'm a bit concerned. I also get asked all the time "so what do you really want to do in aviation". Everyone seems to ask this, maybe because of my age. I usually respond by saying I will go wherever the career takes be, but I enjoy being an instructor and plan to do this for at least 2 or 3 years. Any other good responses to these types of questions? Am I being overly sensitive?

May 18th, 2004, 00:21	#2
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,567	Re: Students that question your credentials I don't think that their rude questions at all. If you're discussing brain surgery with your doctor, would you not want to know about his or her background, experience and education? Everytime I have a new instructor, I make sure that I find out where (s)he trained, how long they've been flying and how many hours of flight time they have. Often, it can improve the educational experience for both of us. We all want to be compensated for our service, and I think that each and every one of us deserve that. I think that you're doing the right thing by "selling" your experience with the flight school, aircraft and area. Instead of concentrating on your weaknesses (new instructor, etc), sharpen up those strong points!!! Other than that, the only thing you can tell them is that you've passed an FAA checkride and demonstrated that you can safely and competently act as a flight instructor. That should be enough!!

May 18th, 2004, 01:05	#3
viper548 Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 818	Re: Students that question your credentials Actually it would be prudent to ask your instructor about his performance record, experience, pass rate, etc. I never did, I did my private through the chief pilot and for everything else I flew with multiple instructors. I've been asked how long I've been a CFI, but not about my pass rate (haven't sent anyone for a checkride yet). The flight school I work at has self-examining authority for the instrument rating, and I usually teach instrument. If someone questions your credentials, counter it with the fact that your training was recent, the CFI checkride is by no means easy, and you are very enthusiastic about instructing.

May 18th, 2004, 01:08	#4
bushmaster Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 229	Re: Students that question your credentials [ QUOTE ] Often, it can improve the educational experience for both of us. Instead of concentrating on your weaknesses (new instructor, etc), sharpen up those strong points!!! Other than that, the only thing you can tell them is that you've passed an FAA checkride and demonstrated that you can safely and competently act as a flight instructor. That should be enough!! [/ QUOTE ] Well put. Stay strong on your strong points. BE CONFIDENT IN WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

May 18th, 2004, 05:39	#5
EDUC8-or Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: NC Posts: 2,260	Re: Students that question your credentials It's almost always going to happen. Here's an interesting twist: My PPL instructor busted his PPL checkride. He didn't try to hide it, he was the one who told me about it without any questions. He wanted me to learn from his mistakes. He was an outstanding instructor, the best I've had. I was his second student ever. At our first meeting, he sat me down, told me he was fresh off the CFI checkride, so his knowledge was fresh. He then told me about busting his ride, and how it was partially his fault and partially the fault of his instructor. He then said he wasn't going to let the same things happen to me and he would do his personal best so I could pass my checkride. After hearing this, I never doubted his abilities from day one.

May 18th, 2004, 10:06	#6
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,233	Re: Students that question your credentials [ QUOTE ] I'm 21, and most of my students are 10-20 years older than me (at least). Some questions I typically get asked are "how long have you been instructing?", and "what's your pass rate on checkrides?". [/ QUOTE ] Alchemy I have been asked the same things; 19 here... younger than some students' kids even. I would think an older looking instructor would be asked these questions much less regardless of experience. Students are just trying to get a feel for whether we can handle the job. Rod Machado had a great article a while ago about selling yourself as a young cfi. Here's the link if you're an AOPA member: Young CFIs. Basically it makes a point of turning weaknesses into strengths: 'I've been flying for 3 years, got my cfi 3 months ago, and I'm very enthuastic about flying. I have been involved in flight training since I started flying, and I know what it feels like to be a student.' [ QUOTE ] I also get asked all the time "so what do you really want to do in aviation". Everyone seems to ask this, maybe because of my age. [/ QUOTE ] I almost always get asked this question too... I think people just want to know you care about their training and not just about going to the airlines. I tell the truth, 'I honestly don't know; most likely airlines, but for now I am very enthuastic about instructing.' Then again I have ZERO primary students so it must not be working (starting at a new and hopefully busier place at SNA on Thurs)

May 18th, 2004, 11:20	#7
viper548 Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 818	Re: Students that question your credentials [ QUOTE ] I also get asked all the time "so what do you really want to do in aviation". Everyone seems to ask this, maybe because of my age. [/ QUOTE ] Tell them the truth. If you wanna go airlines, great. If you're a new CFI tell them that you'll be a CFI for a couple more years first. Unless you got hired and are awaiting a start date there's no reason a primary student shouldn't start training with you. If you have a start date, or have several interviews going on tell the student that you're in the interviewing process. That gives them the chance to decide if they want someone else. I did my first 2 lessons with a guy that got hired before I started with him. If I'd known he wouldn't be there to do a significant part of my training, I would have started with someone else.

May 18th, 2004, 11:23	#8
Ophir Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: was Ophir, CO, now in SLC! Posts: 1,481	Re: Students that question your credentials Alchemy, in one word: Humility. You need to have humility in your instruction. I have had a hard time on occasions justifying my position as a CFI. It has seemed to me that I wasn't qualified, after all I was still learning so much. If you tell your students that you don't know everything but you can assure them when something comes up that you are not clear on that you will get the correct answer by the next lesson, you provide them the trust they need to respect you. It is amazing to me how much you learn as a CFI. I feel liike I didn't know anything until I have taught it now. The lesson I am learning though is you know more than your students and you always have something to give back to them. Of course the time and money they spend on you is extremely valauble but if you respect that, you will give them their money's worth. My advice (and this is coming from a four month CFI) is to simply tell them the truth. You are in this because you are extremely passionate about it. You are excited to give to all your students the info you were taught and more. I tell all my students that at anytime they would like to switch instructors by all means feel free to do so. I believe that providing them with the best instruction, even if that if with someone else, is the best thing I can do for them. If we happen to work well together, far be it from me to stand in they way of the best thing for them. Once you have provided this option it really diffuses people like the ones who require a CV before they begin training with you. Here's an anecdotal story: Last week a guy calls up and say he is interested in getting some Sim time, is there an instructor available. I volunteered for the mission. I get in the sim with him and I learn he is a right seater for Citation Jet with tons of hours. He is about to go Flight Safety for some recurrent training and wanted to fly a Sim. I swallow hard knowing full well that he knows more than I. We start flying and by the end he says to me, "how long have you been instructing?" I reply " oh, just a bit more than three months." He comes back, "Well, you are great. I can see your enthusiam is really an asset. Thanks for refreshing my memory with many of those tidbits I had forgotten." In the end he now wants to fly with me in the Sim more often and he wants to go out in a C-172 just to get some real stick time too. I have to admit, I go home and crack open the books and study up on what to give him for the next time around. But that is what I am in this for, to learn. I hope that helps.

May 18th, 2004, 11:31	#9
mrivc211 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 2,052	Re: Students that question your credentials I have students ask me all the time too. You win some, you lose some. It's tough but honestly, before you know it, you've got a year under your belt and when people ask you the same quetions you don't even flinch anymore. you just answer righ back at them and its the way you answer that also makes a difference. They see your confidence and that you look like you've been doing this for a while. Plus more than liekly a year from now your gonna be flooded with students thus if one thinks your not qualified you can tell him to take the boot! Hang in there!

May 19th, 2004, 10:50	#10
Icelandair Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: North Dakota, USA Posts: 247	Re: Students that question your credentials I never get that but i instruct at my school where most of the instructors have recently graduated or are even still in their last years of the program.

May 26th, 2004, 12:45	#11
farwellbooth Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 316	Re: Students that question your credentials My instructor is 15 years older than me with over 6000 hours and I still questioned him. It's a lot of money! I figured with that time he's got to be looking for a job with at least health insurance...

May 26th, 2004, 12:52	#12
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,567	Re: Students that question your credentials [ QUOTE ] I figured with that time he's got to be looking for a job with at least health insurance... [/ QUOTE ] you could get some disabled veteran like myself with free VA health insurance.....or maybe he has a spouse/partner with bennies....

May 26th, 2004, 16:10	#13
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,233	Re: Students that question your credentials MTSU dude that avatar is REALLY freaking me out

May 26th, 2004, 17:56	#14
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,567	Re: Students that question your credentials In all honesty, I can't even look at it without laughing hysterically!!!

May 27th, 2004, 08:17	#15
MidlifeFlyer Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 3,027	Re: Students that question your credentials [ QUOTE ] MTSU dude that avatar is REALLY freaking me out [/ QUOTE ]Don't say that. It's his "friend".

May 28th, 2004, 12:23	#16
Flying_Corporal Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North East; KFRG Posts: 66	Re: Students that question your credentials Those who ask this question generally have had a bad flight training experience somewhere else.

May 28th, 2004, 17:08	#17
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,567	Re: Students that question your credentials [ QUOTE ] Those who ask this question generally have had a bad flight training experience somewhere else. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know...I've asked this question without having had a bad experience. To fly with a CFI and not ask questions is like buying a new car without asking the dealer to let you see safety reports.

May 28th, 2004, 19:02	#18
Grabo172 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Peterborough, NH Posts: 1,281	Re: Students that question your credentials Almost everyone I fly with either as a CFI or if they are passengers asks about where I trained and how long I've been flying... I tell them everything they want to know... they need to be comfortable flying with me and I like talking about my flight expirience . Most are just curious about who they are going to be trusting their life to... not too much to ask IMHO

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