CFI/Student Meal Etiquette

[mdolezal]

So really, what's the etiquette when it comes to a student and an instructor hitting a meal together during a cross country? Student pays for the instructor for all of the hard work the CFI puts in, instructor pays for the student for all of the hard work the student puts in and for choosing him/her as his/her instructor, or dutch date? Anybody have a take on this? I'm no good with social queues...

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by mdolezal

Student pays for the instructor for all of the hard work the CFI puts in, instructor pays for the student for all of the hard work the student puts in and for choosing him/her as his/her instructor, or dutch date? Anybody have a take on this? I'm no good with social queues...

My personal opinion would be dutch, or student pays. If there's a custom in place, I'm not aware of it.

And I'm not saying that because I'm an instructor either, cause I'm not.

[flyinguitar]

This came up yesterday with a student who wanted to have lunch at a restaurant at a nearby airport in between lessons. I make it a point to bring my lunch to work everyday so I don't waste money - I'm on an extremely tight budget (I'm a CFI, so duh). It's not really OK with me that I would have to buy my lunch just because my student wants to hit an airport restaurant, so I let him know that if he wanted to do lunch, he'd be buying mine. It came up quickly and I wish I'd had more time to think about it - I'm the kind of person who likes to have everything understood and out in the open, so I risked an awkward moment to be sure we had an understanding. He was fine about it, but I feel kind of cheap. I wish my budget wasn't so tight so I could just say "sure man, let's go!" Chances are he would pay for it anyway.

[flyinguitar]

Originally Posted by mdolezal

instructor pays for the student for all of the hard work the student puts in and for choosing him/her as his/her instructor

While I deeply appreciate those of my students who do work hard, I certainly don't feel like I would owe them lunch.

[upup89]

I for one don't mind paying for my own lunch but do appreciate the offer by students and from time to time will accept a free lunch or dinner. But really only if it is a student that I have been working on trying to save that particular student a little bit of money so he/she can get that rating that they are working on.

When I was a student I used to always buy my instructors meals whenever we stopped on cross country flights. I figure whats an extra five bucks at McDonalds to the person that is trying to help me achieve my dream. Not that it helped me get done faster or anything but now all those guys are flying for different airlines or corporations so it really helped me as the student in the long run.

I guess I just put a positive circle of life spin on buying lunch for your CFI. Sorry, its late and i'm bored.

[tlewis95]

I always picked it up for my CFI, even if he offered to pay I would insist on picking it up. Idk, I think I just have a problem asking someone out to eat, and expecting them to pay.

My instructor liked to fly with me though, I always wanted to take the C140 out to Fly-In breakfasts.

Great thread, this is something I have thought about, and I think I will continue to pick up the tab.

[subpilot]

Great topic. Now lets throw a twist into this...

You go on a cross country and the student insist that the two of you stop at an airport for about an hour to have lunch. Do you charge the student for that hour?

Now what if the student wanted to also go into town for 2-3 hours to visit family or a friend. Do you charge the student for that time as well?

For me, the answer is yes I do charge them. Actually I charged from the minute were scheduled to meet at the airport until we got back from the trip. The way I look at it the student is paying for my time. Time that I could have otherwise been with another student. For me the Hobbs meter is for airplane billing. My billing was from scheduled start time until I was done signing his logbook at the end of the lesson.

[mojo6911]

Ryanmickg taught me this little trick:

Get in front on your student in line, and get your food first, and just point your student out to the cashier, then go sit down and eat and wait for the student to come join you. They automatically assume they were supposed to pay, so there is no awkwardness.

[esa17]

I always just "flip" for it. My record for losses is 8 in a row, that sucked.

[slushie]

Student buys, and gets a little bit a of "ground" in between bites.

[mooneyguy]

Now that I am a CFI...Student buys!!! Seriously I guess it depends on the situation. If you (the CFI) are on "the clock" while you are eating than you should pay your own way!

[ILS37R]

As a student I usually picked up the bill.

As an instructor, if it's something cheap (<=$10), Dutch or student picking up is fine with me. If the student wants to go somewhere more expensive, I expect them to pay. However, if it's a nice place I'll usually be a bit more "lax" in my accounting of ground training (I'm on the clock for the duration I'm away from home).

The one notable exception is that the first meal after completion of a rating (e.g. someone who just got their PPL with me and is now working on their IR) is on me.

[soonerpilot06]

Originally Posted by ILS37R

(I'm on the clock for the duration I'm away from home)

Hi to bye. I worked for a big expensive flight school. I tried to help out students here and there on briefing charges. No more! From the time we are supposed to meet to the time we say goodbye, minus the hobbs time, is what I bill for briefing. You can bring home so much more. That's my livelihood, you know? However, on long xc's I will not charge the length of time we are eating. To me, it doesn't seem fair. Especially if the student picks up the tab for lunch.

[thesoonerkid]

a good friend of mine is a flight instructor at the place im taking lessons so every now and then ill treat him to lunch, but its more because he is/was a friend before he worked there, and because i know hes getting the shaft from where hes teaching. we usually end up chatting about flying and whatnot...as a student, i dont mind buying lunch or a water or whatever

[Vyse]

If it's purely social, each pay their own.

If there's ground or instruction involved, student pays.

[bdhill1979]

Originally Posted by slushie

Student buys, and gets a little bit a of "ground" in between bites.

Yeah buying me lunch is an easy way to get cheap ground. Some of my students have figured this out and I am fine with explaining things over a meal that I didn't have to buy.

But I never let it drag out past an hour. One guy tried that. He failed.

[Douglas]

It is dutch until the student says- "I've got this".

BUT: for my student that was under 18; I always bought.

it is a great way to give ground!

[killbilly]

I'd ask myself what i would do if it was a non flying situation and then do that.

I had many lunches with my cfi and somtimes it was Dutch and sometimes I paid and sometimes he paid. Regular social convention applies.

[christina3hunt]

poor poor poor CFI's...

[Flybob37]

Can't imagine wasting time eating when there's an airplane sitting there waiting to be flown. I would go flying with my instructor. That's what we did.

After I soloed I was expected to buy pizza and beer for the whole place.

After I passed the PPL I was expected to take the CFI out for a steak diinner.

We've gone to lunch and dinner socially, or in groups and it's usually Dutch.

But, I think a student should buy every so often. It's a way of saying thanks.

[PanJet]

I had a case once where a student asked if we could go to a place for his commercial dual XC where there was this restaurant he liked to go to (guy used to live in this town apparently). I agreed and we were going to do Dutch. What he failed to tell me was that the restaurant was a fancy Trout House right on the lake where the cheapest thing on the menu was a $16 plate of spaghetti. I just about made him fly an extra hour away from home before returning so I might actually profit from the trip we made.

[Grabo172]

I usually assume it is dutch, unless the student says they'll get it... usually the student does...

But at a school I used to work at, we actually had an "expense account" when on a dual XC so that we could buy the student's lunch. We just had to bring back the receipt and we got reimbursed for the meal.

[jrh]

Originally Posted by PanJet

I had a case once where a student asked if we could go to a place for his commercial dual XC where there was this restaurant he liked to go to (guy used to live in this town apparently). I agreed and we were going to do Dutch. What he failed to tell me was that the restaurant was a fancy Trout House right on the lake where the cheapest thing on the menu was a $16 plate of spaghetti. I just about made him fly an extra hour away from home before returning so I might actually profit from the trip we made.

Haha! Ya know, it's good to practice diversion procedures on those commercial XCs...

[jrh]

In response to the OP, my usual protocol is that I plan on going dutch if the student doesn't say anything in advance. If they offer to pay, I'll certainly take them up on the offer. And I never offer to pay for them, partially because CFIs don't get paid big bucks and partially because I'm a cheapskate.

As a matter of etiquette, I think the student ought to at least offer to pay, but I don't get bent out of shape if they don't offer.

As a matter of logic, it seems that if a student is smart they'd pay for the CFI's dinner. Paying for dinner is a relatively easy way to stay on the CFI's good side, get some free instruction, etc. It prevents situations like PanJet's where the CFI gets pissed and wants to find reasons to make more off the student.

[BillH]

Try to enjoy life. I don't charge the students for time during meals. I always go dutch unless they offer to pay and I am reluctant to just let them. Nearly all of my students I am friends with. Hey listen, your not losing money by not flying, your just delaying when you make money. The student needs a set amount of hours, you'll get them eventually, unless they quit. For some reason, as a CFI, I don't feel poor! Even with a Sallie Mae loan from ATP.