Reports required when entering a hold....

[cfii2007]

Anybody know the three items that must be reported when entering a hold?

I'm guessing....

1) Name of the fix
2) Altitude
3)

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by cfii2007

Anybody know the three items that must be reported when entering a hold?

Time and altitude, according to the AIM.

[CameronF]

Originally Posted by cfii2007

Anybody know the three items that must be reported when entering a hold?

I'm guessing....

1) Name of the fix
2) Altitude
3)

Callsign!

[minitour]

Originally Posted by CameronF

Callsign!

Minor details.

-mini

[noeflys84]

*Call sign
1.) est in the hold
2.) Altitude
3.) Time

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

Time and altitude, according to the AIM.

I'm guessing that someone came up with an acronym and needed a third letter

[cfii2007]

Thanks....I could not find anything in my books.

[Asta]

But when are you "established" in the fix? I believe it is when crossing the fix for the first time on the inbound leg, but I've been told ATC wants you to make the call when crossing the fix on the entry.

[etflies]

Originally Posted by Asta

But when are you "established" in the fix? I believe it is when crossing the fix for the first time on the inbound leg, but I've been told ATC wants you to make the call when crossing the fix on the entry.

I was always taught when you are performing the entry into the hold. I haven't had any issues doing this when flying holds, and it is what myself and our other instructors teach.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by Asta

But when are you "established" in the fix? I believe it is when crossing the fix for the first time on the inbound leg, but I've been told ATC wants you to make the call when crossing the fix on the entry.

The only report that the AIM requires is arrival AT a holding fix. There is no standard "established" in the hold report. That being the case, you can't do it wrongly. In general, ATC doesn't care what you're doing in the holding area, as long as you remain there. :-) So established inbound, vs performing the entry maneuvering, is immaterial. When I receive the (rare) request to report "established" in the hold, I report after crossing the fix during the entry.

The Canadian version of the AIM does defined the term "established in the hold" and defines it as being established on the inbound course. Midlifeflyer also identified an obscure FAA document that permits ATC to reduce their separation requirements from holding patterns once the aircraft is established inbound, so there is a plausible reason why ATC might be interested. However, since this fact isn't printed in either the Air Traffic Controller's Handbook or in the AIM, it suggests (to me) that the ATC isn't really that interested.

I have submitted a request to the AIM people that they consider defining the term. The said they would embark on "discovery" to see if the term needed defining. That was at least 6 months ago and I've heard nothing since. It's not in the AIM yet.

I also discussed the issue with Wally Roberts, who is a nationally renown expert on instrument approaches and ATC procedures, and he was mystified about why any controller would be interested in whether or not the aircraft was established inbound. He saw no value in defining "established in the hold" in the way that Canada does and said that if any controller complained about not reporting when established on the inbound leg, the pilot should call up on the telephone and complain to his supervisor.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Asta

But when are you "established" in the fix? I believe it is when crossing the fix for the first time on the inbound leg, but I've been told ATC wants you to make the call when crossing the fix on the entry.

That reference to reduced traffic separation minimums (I'm not sure I'd describe the FAA Order that deals with holding procedures "obscure") and controllers who have told me that they use it for that purpose (obviously without having read that obscure document) aside, you will find the phrase "established in the hold" in an extensive collection of FAA documents, both obscure and not - exactly once (tgrayson - search for it on the Summit CD), as part of a recommended self-briefing for arrival procedures.

So, no, this is definitely not a phrase that is part of official FAA jargon and you are well within your rights to ask for a clarification if asked.