Stall Issues

[madmax]

So I'm doing all my maneuvers for the first time from the right seat, and they are all going pretty well (getting used to compensating for looking at the instruments sideways). My only issue is that whenever I do a Departure Stall in the C152, it always breaks really hard right and tries to spin. I'm pretty sure I'm coordinated and not cross-controlled. Any one have any advice, or did I forget that 152s just want to spin when you do aggressive power-on stalls?

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by madmax

My only issue is that whenever I do a Departure Stall in the C152, it always breaks really hard right and tries to spin. I'm pretty sure I'm coordinated and not cross-controlled.

Most airplanes break right in this maneuver anyway when fully coordinated. The reason is the same as for why a ME airplane sideslips to the left with the left engine out; the deflected right rudder creates horizontal lift that accelerates the airplane left. The resulting sideslip causes the relative wind to move towards the right wingtip, increasing the thickness of the boundary layer, leading to an early stall.

Usually not hard, though. You may be carrying an excessive amount of right rudder due to parallax; the ball looks centered, but it's really out to the left. Just use a little less right rudder until the airplane breaks forward.

[mojo6911]

I don't look at the ball when doing power on stalls. I try to pick a reference point in the sky, and hold my nose on it with rudder, while keeping the ailerons neutral.

[Codyjp]

cover you instruments next time and focus your attention outside, and feel for the yaw in your spine. this will probably fix your problem.

People who yaw to the right are overcompensating with right rudder when the stall breaks and aren't catching the yaw as the stall breaks because their eyes are focused inside the plane.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Codyjp

cover you instruments next time and focus your attention outside, and feel for the yaw in your spine. this will probably fix your problem.

People who yaw to the right are overcompensating with right rudder when the stall breaks and aren't catching the yaw as the stall breaks because their eyes are focused inside the plane.

I'm going to go with this one as a potential answer. It may or may not be a case of looking inside (although that certainly could be the reason), but I have seen pilots so locked into the heavy right rudder that they did not release it at the break. No reason that it couldn't happen as a pilot transitions to the right side with new views.

[Codyjp]

I would doubt that the fact the pilot is on the right side has anything to do with the stall itself.

Now go have fun with postie notes.

[bdhill1979]

Originally Posted by Codyjp

I would doubt that the fact the pilot is on the right side has anything to do with the stall itself.

Now go have fun with postie notes.

Covering the instruments and focusing outside has been the cure for about half the struggles my students have had with maneuvers.

I even went so far as to buy the really nice sportys instrument covers.

[Codyjp]

I have some of those 'real' covers but they just fall off. (they aren't from sporty's)

I keep most things covered up for the first few hours if they seem to mesmerized by the instruments.

[bdhill1979]

Originally Posted by Codyjp

I have some of those 'real' covers but they just fall off. (they aren't from sporty's)

I keep most things covered up for the first few hours if they seem to mesmerized by the instruments.

I had another set that was hard plastic, always fell off and were hard to take off on purpose.

The Sporty's ones stick really good and are really easy to take off when you want to.

[madmax]

Thanks for all the advice, I'll try not looking inside next time I fly.

[sdfcvoh]

Originally Posted by madmax

Thanks for all the advice, I'll try not looking inside next time I fly.

I just went through this exact same situation in my own transition to the right seat. For me, it was excess right rudder causing the problem, as well I found myself not releasing right rudder fast enough during stall-break.

Some chair flying fixed it....

[zach bird]

don"t relax the rudder pressure that you are using to stay coordinated when you are doing the stall- as the nose drops i find that i increase rudder pressure to keep the wing from dropping

[Codyjp]

keep life simple. Look outside and correct for any yaw you see outside.

[BCTAv8r]

The first time I tried a power-on stall I attempted to use the ailerons to keep the wings level. That was almost my first experience with spins as well.

[madmax]

I've got it pretty well resolved, now I see how far up I can pitch it before stalling

152's are fun!

[beechpilot84]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

I don't look at the ball when doing power on stalls. I try to pick a reference point in the sky, and hold my nose on it with rudder, while keeping the ailerons neutral.

Bingo!!

If you are looking at the ball you are not "in tune" with the airplane. Just hold enough right rudder to stop the nose from moving left. That's all and you will stall straight.

[BillH]

I have my students do the power on stall with a 20 deg bank to the right during a turn. I highly suggest to them that they look at the ball for this one.

Anyhow, if you want to cover up the instruments, just throw a blanket over the dash.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by BillH

I have my students do the power on stall with a 20 deg bank to the right during a turn. I highly suggest to them that they look at the ball for this one.

I insist that they look =outside= for that one also.

Let's remember what these exercises are supposed to be simulating - stalls during the landing and departure phases of flight. I really try my best to convince my students that they should be looking outside when taking off and landing, even(especially) during turns.

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by BillH

I have my students do the power on stall with a 20 deg bank to the right during a turn. I highly suggest to them that they look at the ball for this one.

Anyhow, if you want to cover up the instruments, just throw a blanket over the dash.

I find a normal sheet of paper works well to cover all the instruments. I use the attitude indicator adjustment knob and put the sheet of paper in the middle.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

I insist that they look =outside= for that one also.

Being "aware" of the ball and looking outside aren't mutually exclusive. It's all part of a normal scan.

I don't think turning stalls should be taught differently from straight ahead stalls or differently from normal flight, which is why I don't approve of the "directional control with the rudder" and "level wings with ailerons". Stall the airplane with normal, coordinated flight controls. And, yes, you can do this while looking outside.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

Being "aware" of the ball and looking outside aren't mutually exclusive. It's all part of a normal scan.

True. But the problem can be in the translation. You

don't think turning stalls should be taught differently from straight ahead stalls or differently from normal flight

I agree with you but it seems that the extra focus on "look at the ball to keep coordinated or you will spin" during stalls tends to come across as instructions to fixate - note the beginning of this thread.