Commercial "Solo" Requirements

[Benji86]

I have a question for the instructors, In reading the requirements for the Commercial rating , the long cross country requires not more than 300 Nm total distance for the trip, and 250 nm for one leg, and it must be "solo". I am a bit confused on the solo part. Does this mean that the applicant must be the sole operator of the aircraft in flight, or the sole occupant of the a/c in flight? Any help would be appreciated on clearing this up!

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by Benji86

I have a question for the instructors, In reading the requirements for the Commercial rating , the long cross country requires not more than 300 Nm total distance for the trip, and 250 nm for one leg, and it must be "solo". I am a bit confused on the solo part. Does this mean that the applicant must be the sole operator of the aircraft in flight, or the sole occupant of the a/c in flight? Any help would be appreciated on clearing this up!

No pax.

[jettison IT]

Are you sure "No Pax"?

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by jettison IT

Are you sure "No Pax"?

Yes.

[Wing_96]

61.129 Aeronautical experience.
(A)For an airplane single-engine rating
(4)(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point.


61.51 Pilot logbooks.
(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft.

[will_fly_for_bandwith]

I asked my FSDO about this one when I was converting my JAA PPL to an unrestricted FAA private Cert..

Solo means solo... no other persons onboard. He told me a story about making people redo the flights with the FSDO watching the departure to ensure 'solo'.

[jettison IT]

Thanks guys

[ryanmickG]

I don't see why this is so confusing.

[Benji86]

It just was... I was pretty sure it meant sole occupant but I wanted to make sure.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Benji86

I have a question for the instructors, In reading the requirements for the Commercial rating , the long cross country requires not more than 300 Nm total distance for the trip, and 250 nm for one leg, and it must be "solo". I am a bit confused on the solo part. Does this mean that the applicant must be the sole operator of the aircraft in flight, or the sole occupant of the a/c in flight? Any help would be appreciated on clearing this up!

Originally Posted by Wing_96

61.129 Aeronautical experience.
(A)For an airplane single-engine rating
(4)(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point.


61.51 Pilot logbooks.
(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft.

big difference in the more than, not less than.....

solo is solo......

[JEP]

Originally Posted by jettison IT

Are you sure "No Pax"?

if you have pax, is it a SOLO flight?

Cut and Dry......

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by ryanmickG

I don't see why this is so confusing.

I don't know that this is the reason, but you know how sometimes incorrect concepts get handed down without knowing where they came from? Well, long before the FARs and the creation of the concept of "logged PIC," the CAR had it's own word for flight time logged toward the requirements for certificates and ratings as the "sole manipulator of the controls."

Can you guess what that word was?

[3enginejock]

At ATP (the flight school), all the commercial x-countries are done with 2 people in the aircraft. Usually its another commercial student, both pilots have their private multi engine land - instrument.

To my knowledge none of the examiners have ever had a problem with it and they still continue to do this.

So, to my knowledge the cross country does not need to be "SOLO".

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by 3enginejock

At ATP (the flight school), all the commercial x-countries are done with 2 people in the aircraft. Usually its another commercial student, both pilots have their private multi engine land - instrument.

To my knowledge none of the examiners have ever had a problem with it and they still continue to do this.

So, to my knowledge the cross country does not need to be "SOLO".

Wow...

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by 3enginejock

At ATP (the flight school), all the commercial x-countries are done with 2 people in the aircraft. Usually its another commercial student, both pilots have their private multi engine land - instrument.

To my knowledge none of the examiners have ever had a problem with it and they still continue to do this.

So, to my knowledge the cross country does not need to be "SOLO".

Are you aware that there are 3 commercial cross countries and that 2 of them are dual?

Or are you talking about the commercial multi solo cross countries? All commercial multi solo requirements can use the "performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized instructor" option =instead= of solo. I can understand the validity of an interpretation where this would not prohibit someone else being on board.

[bdhill1979]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

Are you aware that there are 3 commercial cross countries and that 2 of them are dual?

Or are you talking about the commercial multi solo cross countries? All commercial multi solo requirements can use the "performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized instructor" option =instead= of solo. I can understand the validity of an interpretation where this would not prohibit someone else being on board.

Except ATP does the Private Multi first thing so th PDPIC thing does not work as they are rated for category and class.

[cfii2007]

Originally Posted by Benji86

I have a question for the instructors, In reading the requirements for the Commercial rating , the long cross country requires not more than 300 Nm total distance for the trip, and 250 nm for one leg, and it must be "solo". I am a bit confused on the solo part. Does this mean that the applicant must be the sole operator of the aircraft in flight, or the sole occupant of the a/c in flight? Any help would be appreciated on clearing this up!

The applicant MUST be flying the aircraft SOLO.....no exceptions.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by bdhill1979

Except ATP does the Private Multi first thing so th PDPIC thing does not work as they are rated for category and class.

Except that the post I responded to said

At ATP (the flight school), all the commercial x-countries are done with 2 people in the aircraft.

He didn't say anything about the private.

[Fly_Unity]

Originally Posted by 3enginejock

At ATP (the flight school), all the commercial x-countries are done with 2 people in the aircraft. Usually its another commercial student, both pilots have their private multi engine land - instrument.

To my knowledge none of the examiners have ever had a problem with it and they still continue to do this.

So, to my knowledge the cross country does not need to be "SOLO".

Actually you are incorrect. At ATP Its ALWAYS done with an Instructor which is perfectly legal in a muti engine airplane.

Originally Posted by cfii2007

The applicant MUST be flying the aircraft SOLO.....no exceptions.

one exception :P If doing the comercial checkride in a twin, You can do "supervised solo". The FAA pretty much knows that no one is going to let a student fly a twin solo

[Fly_Unity]

Originally Posted by Wing_96

One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point.

At ATP PHX I went to my MEI check-ride with June Bonesteel. She went over my logbooks line by line, she came to my commercial cross country line, and then went to airnav.com and checked the distance from the "Original departure point" and it only came to 247 miles! 3 miles short! My instructor thought he solved that problem by flying to another town first, but we both missed the word "original" when planning this out.

She refused to take the checkride even though I already had my commercial license, so ATP shipped me to JAX where I took it and passed.

[Codyjp]

Originally Posted by Fly_Unity

At ATP PHX I went to my MEI check-ride with June Bonesteel. She went over my logbooks line by line, she came to my commercial cross country line, and then went to airnav.com and checked the distance from the "Original departure point" and it only came to 247 miles! 3 miles short! My instructor thought he solved that problem by flying to another town first, but we both missed the word "original" when planning this out.

She refused to take the checkride even though I already had my commercial license, so ATP shipped me to JAX where I took it and passed.

I have seen things like this happen several time in the last few months. One guy got denied his multi add on after the examiner discovered that he was never endorsed for the complex. Woops. Now the examiner that did the initial commercial is in the HOT seat for issuing the original. I still haven't heard if the FSDO is going to let the guy keep his single commercial.

Why did ATP just send you to somebody else instead of fixing the original problem? If you didn't legally complete the required cross country then your Commercial pilot certificate is by default invalid, and the examiner in JAX should be investigated.

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by Codyjp

I have seen things like this happen several time in the last few months. One guy got denied his multi add on after the examiner discovered that he was never endorsed for the complex. Woops. Now the examiner that did the initial commercial is in the HOT seat for issuing the original. I still haven't heard if the FSDO is going to let the guy keep his single commercial.

Why did ATP just send you to somebody else instead of fixing the original problem? If you didn't legally complete the required cross country then your Commercial pilot certificate is by default invalid, and the examiner in JAX should be investigated.

Maybe because airnav.com isn't a legal resource?

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by Codyjp

One guy got denied his multi add on after the examiner discovered that he was never endorsed for the complex.

There is no requirement that a candidate have a complex endorsement for the checkride or even the certificate.

[Codyjp]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

There is no requirement that a candidate have a complex endorsement for the checkride or even the certificate.

How then can you legally be the PIC of a complex aircraft during the initial commercial checkride?

[Codyjp]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

Maybe because airnav.com isn't a legal resource?

I would be left to assume they at least verified with a plotter.