CFI on the side

[jgrant]

When I started out in aviation as a youngster my career goal was to become an airline pilot. Things went well through my PPL and part way into my instrument rating, then life happened. I got married, changed majors, etc. all with the expectation that I would start flying again at some point. Well, I am now 31, have added 3 kids to the mix, a mortgage, and I pay the bills with a job in the software industry. Growing up the only thing I ever wanted to be in life was a pilot. I am slowly realizing that my dreams of flying for the airlines someday may be moving ever further away from reality. Sure, it would be doable but not without a lot of undue stress placed on my family. Instead, I have thought about the possibility of finishing up my ratings and instructing part time while keeping my day job.

When I first started out back in college I made the choice to borrow money to fly. I now pay over $200 per month back on my loan and it kills me to think I have dished out all that money and am no longer using my license. If I could figure out a way financially to train to be a CFI I think it would satisfy my hunger to stay in the aviation community while at the same time help pay back the loan I used to pay for my flying in the first place. I have around 130 hours TT and have a lot of requirements for the instrument completed. I am figuring I will need around $12,000 more to finish up and start instructing (could be more if the gas price trend continues).

Am I crazy to look at this as an investment and finance the rest of my ratings with a loan? I cannot afford to pay for training out of pocket and do not foresee being able to do that into the distant future. Do I just tell myself to forget about flying until I am old and gray and can finally afford it? I am faced with the real possibility of having to get a second job soon anyway ("Welcome to WalMart!"), for me it almost makes sense to finish up my ratings, start instructing on the side, and supplement my income with flying rather than flipping burgers. I would like opinions from you CFIs out there. Where I have already "invested" in aviation with a loan, would it make sense to borrow enough to start instructing and pay off my aviation debts with aviation? As it stands right now I feel like the $200+ per month to pay off the loan is going into a black hole and I don't even get to fly!

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by jgrant

would it make sense to borrow enough to start instructing and pay off my aviation debts with aviation?

You will never be able to justify getting your CFI financially. And the idea of acquiring more debt in order to get out of debt should set off some warning bells. Consider taking that $12,000 and upgrade your skills to make more money in the software industry. (Speaking as a part-time CFI who works in the software industry.)

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

You will never be able to justify getting your CFI financially. And the idea of acquiring more debt in order to get out of debt should set off some warning bells. Consider taking that $12,000 and upgrade your skills to make more money in the software industry. (Speaking as a part-time CFI who works in the software industry.)

Speaking as another part-time CFI (who doesn't work in the software industry), I agree 100%.

Being a part-time CFI while engaged in a non-aviation full-time vocation is a matter of love, not of money.

[Wing_96]

I agree with midlife and tgrayson, avoid the additional debt to get your CFI.

Take the 2nd job at Wal-mart. It won't cost you any additional money (or worse, debt) to get this job. Save some of that money for your initial CFI training. In fact, you can prepare for your CFI with a lot of material you probably already have. Start studying now while you save money at the same time. Dust off your PHAK and AFH and start studying the material again. There is a lot that you can do to prepare for the CFI check ride that doesn't involve spending money/time with an instructor.

[jgrant]

Thanks for the honest answers. As far as spending $12,000 to upgrade my skills in the software industry...not a chance. I only tolerate this job to pay the bills. Can't stand computers. Hopefully someday I will be able to stop beating myself up over the fact that I didn't finish the ratings when I had the chance.

[jgrant]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

Consider taking that $12,000 and upgrade your skills to make more money in the software industry. (Speaking as a part-time CFI who works in the software industry.)

Are you saying that it is o.k. to go into debt to gain computer skills? Seems like a bit of a double standard.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by jgrant

Are you saying that it is o.k. to go into debt to gain computer skills? Seems like a bit of a double standard.

I was wondering if you'd pick up on that. At least with the computer skills, there's a chance for a payback. So, yes, more debt to gain an increase in marketability *might* make sense.

I only tolerate this job to pay the bills. Can't stand computers.

I understand completely. What exactly do you do?

[jgrant]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

What exactly do you do?

Software QA

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by jgrant

Software QA

The development side may offer a pay boost and is probably a lot more portable, but if you hate the field, there's no point in investing a lot more effort there.

You're still young and have plenty of time for a career switch if that's what you want to do. I understand the logistics of that are tough with a family, but other people have done it. If you are absolutely certain about what you want to do, you can probably make it happen, if your wife is willing to work with you.

Be skeptical, though, that an airline career is really what you want. I'm sure the idea of soaring through the air represents freedom when trapped behind the desk, but for many, it's merely exchanging one set of chains for another. Many career switchers end up returning to the field they came from.

You may find greater satisfaction from, say, starting your own business. Being in control makes a lot of mundane jobs much more satisfying. And you then might be able to afford the aviation hobby and fly when and where you want, rather than being told.

[nosehair]

Consider Sport Pilot Instructor where you don't need an instrument or commmercial, only PP and 150 hours. It's a start,.. if there are any sport planes in your area.

[exleardriver]

i agree with the above remarks wholeheartedly. similarly, my actual 'professional aviation career' began around age 33, after having had instructed for several years. the flip-side is that the airlines have indeed been hiring at record rates. we're seeing some companies hire into the right seat of an rj with no more than a multi/commercial - no time requirement! back int he mid-90's when i made the 'leap' into part 135 and learjets, you wouldn't even get a look at your resume without at least 2,500 total and 1,000 - 1,500 multi. now's definitely the time were i to recommend it. but, like the others, i'm won't. i know too many guys who do the gig..and you'll make chicken-feed for a while. and while instructing has its rewards, money isn't one of them.. i tried to work last year as a full-time cfi at local fbo's in the little rock area. i'm too embarrassed to write out what i 'earned'. let's just say that i made 5x that as a learjet captain my last year flying them. i recommend flying for enjoyment when you can, maybe finish that instrument rating. take your time and see how you feel afterwards. i'm big on 'getting out of debt'..and staying out of it.

[Chewie von Nubbins]

Man, this thread is right up my alley. I left the computer world back in 3/07 and took a buy-out from a major telco - full pay and benefits for 7 months...just to walk away. I took it. I decided that I would go in full bore from 0TT to CFII/CFI and get all my licenses and start my career as an airline pilot. The goal was to be done with training by 12/31/07 and then CFI until I hit 800TT 100ME (at the time, the mins to get into the regional that I wanted to get into here where I live). I finished my CFII/CFI in 1/08 and had racked up some debt by burying my head and knocking the ratings out. I left an 80k/yr job to pursue this route and pushed all my chips in.

After finishing up the CFII at the end of December (before getting the CFI-A add-on), I realized that I didn't want to start the new airline pilot career with 20k in credit card debt and all savings gone. I swallowed my pride, used my brain, and decided that I would put my airline pilot career on hold until I had wiped out the 20k in debt and had built my savings back up. The economy was already showing cracks in the foundation and the talking heads on CNBC were spelling doom and gloom for the months and years to come. So, I jumped back to something that I know - computers. I worked the job boards for a couple of months and landed a job with EMC, as a tech support engineer in March and put the flying stuff on complete hold. I just couldn't still be dabbling into flying and start the new computer job due to the fact that I tend to let my love for flying cloud my logical mind. Meaning, I knew that I would have to get my head completely right to start the new job with the right attitude. Just like the people in my office that view the job as their main source of income, and this job being the pinnacle of their professional life - not only now, but in terms of career progression. I was able to get close to were I was making before I left, and like the product that I am supporting.

I really thought that I would hate myself for selling out and running back to the computer field, by putting the flying thing on hold. But, I can honestly say that I don't have any hard feelings. With the economy going down quickly, high gas prices, unstable (even moreso now) regional airlines about to start furloughing, the most responsible thing that I can do now is to get out of debt and protect myself and family in anticipation for a more sunny day in order to make the career switch. And, I know that one day it will come. I am 35 now, about to turn 36 and I know that time is no longer on my side to do this.

I want to start back instructing on a part-time basis in a month or so, as now I have made peace in my mind that my new computer job is the tallest head on the totem pole - at this point in my life. That is what is going to get me out of debt and eventually enable me to get to where I want to go - flying jets for a living. Sure, I hate the office politics, the staff meetings, the 2 hour meetings that should only last 5 minutes, and the 10,000 emails that I have to sift through daily. But, I am able to pay off debt very quickly, max out the 401k, and enjoy every night home with the wife. Things that I know I won't have and will bitterly miss when the day comes to make the career switch.

In a way, I think my case is like executing that shell script that you have written about what you are contemplating doing. But, watching it run on someone else's server. I got all of the way there (minus the 100 hours or so that I needed) to being hired on by a regional and starting the new airline career. Until whatever shakes out in this crazy economy and oil starts coming back down, I am certain that I have made the best possible choice at this point in my working life! Hope my chime in here provides prospective into what you are currently going through in your mind.

And BTW - I ran the numbers for a break even point on the CFI/CFII (under the premise that I never made the switch to the airline career), and I would have to fly at least 30 hours per month for 6 or 7 years to pay off the amount that I put into just getting there. This premise being on a part-time basis, of course.

[felixk]

I find this thread to be similar to my situation as well. I work as a software engineer. I'm in college debt up to my eye balls, and during college I took out more loans + credit card debt to get my Comm+IFR ratings. Now I fly VFR only at a minimum of once a month. It's difficult to leave the computer job...I make good money but the job is incredibly boring (I also work a mile away from my airport and it kills me to be sitting in my cube and hearing airplanes overhead...just kills me.)

Quiting my job and pursuing a career as an airline pilot is not an option. I have so much debt that I spent half my paycheck paying off flying+college debt. I can't afford to live on the entry level airline pilot's pay.

I decided a few weeks ago to become a CFI. I figure even if I never become an airline pilot I'll still be able to fly, keep my skills sharp, and even get paid for it.

Basically my point is, is that i doubt that becoming a CFI will help me get out of debt quicker. But I love to fly and this is definitely the cheapest way to fly airplanes.

[christina3hunt]

Do it, do it, do it!!!! You will regret it forever if you do not. Just get back into flying and finish up your instrument. Take it slow, if it gets to be to expensive at times then take some time off. Fly once a week, once every other week, once a month. Just get back into the flying thing, it will definitly quench your thirst!!!!!!

[jgrant]

Originally Posted by Chewie von Nubbins

Hope my chime in here provides prospective into what you are currently going through in your mind.

Yes, I appreciate the reply.

[jgrant]

Originally Posted by christina3hunt

Do it, do it, do it!!!! You will regret it forever if you do not. Just get back into flying and finish up your instrument. Take it slow, if it gets to be to expensive at times then take some time off. Fly once a week, once every other week, once a month. Just get back into the flying thing, it will definitly quench your thirst!!!!!!

I have thought about this very thing, which brings to mind a question. I realize that everyone is different, and that the FAA publishes minimums regarding currency, but what is a safe amount of time to pass between flights? I don't think I could afford anything beyond one hour per month (if I could even afford that).

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by jgrant

I don't think I could afford anything beyond one hour per month

I recommend self-discipline, because an hour a month is worthless. Pay off your debt and you'll have that cash flow available. Even better if you save that for a year before you start. If you start back right now without a solid plan on how you're going to finish, you'll be making the same mistake you made as a "youngster."