CFII question

[t-cart]

I have an Apache. If I get the MEI as the initial, then get the II in the Apache, Can I give instrument instruction in a single?

[wildwezul1]

As far as I'm aware, not with out your CSEL. There maybe more to it but I think thats the limiting factor

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by t-cart

I have an Apache. If I get the MEI as the initial, then get the II in the Apache, Can I give instrument instruction in a single?

If your commercial certificate has an ASEL rating, yes.

[Maurus]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

If your commercial certificate has an ASEL rating, yes.

Well technically if your CFII license doesn't have the limitation to have your commercial license, you could instruct in a SEL aircraft, but then again how often do you see that limitation not occurring on a CFI or CFII certificate.

Needing the proper license is not a reg, it is a limitation on the Flight Instructor license.

Now the question to be asked is, can you log the time as PIC total flight time? Nope. Only dual time.

[PatrickCPS]

I'm in that exact boat (currently only an MEI) until I get my Commercial Single. Based on the talk I had with the FAA, you cannot give instruction as a CFII in a single engine aircraft unless you hold a Commercial Single, as you are in effect operating for hire, so you do need the Commercial ticket.

[Maurus]

Originally Posted by PatrickCPS

I'm in that exact boat (currently only an MEI) until I get my Commercial Single. Based on the talk I had with the FAA, you cannot give instruction as a CFII in a single engine aircraft unless you hold a Commercial Single, as you are in effect operating for hire, so you do need the Commercial ticket.

Although there is a debate on something like that, I would go with your local FSDO interpretation to stay out of trouble.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by PatrickCPS

I'm in that exact boat (currently only an MEI) until I get my Commercial Single. Based on the talk I had with the FAA, you cannot give instruction as a CFII in a single engine aircraft unless you hold a Commercial Single, as you are in effect operating for hire, so you do need the Commercial ticket.

You got the right answer but the wrong reasoning (hey, he got it half right anyway) - the FAA has for a long time said that flight instruction is =not= operating for hire (which is why you can do it with no medical certificate).

You need the commercial single because of the way the FAA has interpreted 61.195(c):

==============================
61.195(c) A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.
==============================

The FAA has interpreted this as (shortened version) though it reads:

A flight instructor may provide instrument flight training if the flight instructor holds an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and a commercial pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.

If you or Maurus (or the guy at the FSDO) wants to check it out, the current source of the interpretation is FAA Order 8900.1, Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 11, Paragraph 5-503.

[t-cart]

Thanks for the replys. I do hold a CSEL.

[Maurus]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

You got the right answer but the wrong reasoning (hey, he got it half right anyway) - the FAA has for a long time said that flight instruction is =not= operating for hire (which is why you can do it with no medical certificate).

You need the commercial single because of the way the FAA has interpreted 61.195(c):

==============================
61.195(c) A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.
==============================

The FAA has interpreted this as (shortened version) though it reads:

A flight instructor may provide instrument flight training if the flight instructor holds an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and a commercial pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.

If you or Maurus (or the guy at the FSDO) wants to check it out, the current source of the interpretation is FAA Order 8900.1, Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 11, Paragraph 5-503.

Having a reference is always good, thanks.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Maurus

Having a reference is always good, thanks.

BTW, the "a flight instructor may provide..." is just "some guy on the Internet's" (in this case, me) summary of what it says, not the FAA's wording.

[PatrickCPS]

Ya learn something new everyday. Thanks for the correct reasoning.

[ftyflyboy]

To give instruction in a single engine requires a CSEL and a single engine add-on to your CFI ticket. I am doing both of my single engine checkrides tomorrow.
As somewhat of a bonus, these are both add-ons to your current ratings and most DE’s will adjust your oral to reflect as such.

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by ftyflyboy

To give instruction in a single engine requires a CSEL and a single engine add-on to your CFI ticket. I am doing both of my single engine checkrides tomorrow.
As somewhat of a bonus, these are both add-ons to your current ratings and most DE’s will adjust your oral to reflect as such.

That isn't correct, and was explained above. See MidlifeFlyer's post.

[ftyflyboy]

If you can instruct in a single engine with a MEI and a CSEL only, then everyone that has gone through the ATP CFI program is wasting time and money on a single-engine add-on check ride.
What purpose does the single engine CFI add-on serve if you do not need it? I really want to know because I could save some money and skip the ride if I don’t need it.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by ftyflyboy

If you can instruct in a single engine with a MEI and a CSEL only, then everyone that has gone through the ATP CFI program is wasting time and money on a single-engine add-on check ride.
What purpose does the single engine CFI add-on serve if you do not need it? I really want to know because I could save some money and skip the ride if I don’t need it.

You need it to teach anything other than instruments to a pilot that already has a pilot certificate with an ASEL rating. If you want to give training toward a private or commercial certifciate, or give a BFR, as examples, you need that SEL rating on your instuctor certifictae.

If you look at the thread, the =only= thing that has been discussed is giving =instrument training= out of class.