Holding entries....

[bwade210]

Hey guys, does anyone have a good link that explains holding entries and procedures well enough for me and another pilot to both look at and teach a it?

[mojo6911]

AIM 5-3-7, Figure 5-3-4 is about as simple as can be.

[E6BAV8R]

Direct and Teardrop is all you'll ever need

[cfii2007]

There is the "thumb" method which I don't really understand and have never taught.

I just usually have my students figure where they are on the radial, or Victor airway and draw out the hold. Then, based on the aircraft position, figure out the proper entry.

[Goldmember]

I hated holding with a passion because I was always trying to draw instead of flying the plane and I always got screwed up until I found this link. Yes, it is for a guy teaching flight simmers but its the same thing and did a miracle job for me being able to ALWAYS visualize the hold without ever having to draw it out.

http://www.pilotlist.org/zahar/howto.htm

Basically, use the DG. The center of the DG is the fix, you are positioned below the DG flying towards the fix, turn accordingly.

Cheers!

[MidlifeFlyer]

I'm a drawer. I can draw the clearance as quickly as I can write it down so the method works for me. But it doesn't work for everyone - ever see people play Pictionary and see how bad some people are at drawing even simple relationships?

This is truly a "different strokes" issue.

[cfii2007]

Funny, I was always taught to triple the outbound course for wind correction......

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by cfii2007

Funny, I was always taught to triple the outbound course for wind correction......

I have seen double and triple in different texts. I draw my holds. Once I have drawn it, it makes it pretty simple to figure out the entry.

[Air 1]

I used to hate trying to figure out holding patterns, but this website cured all of that. You can really understand them after doing this exercise a few times. If I ever become an instructor, I'm going to show this to my instrument students.

http://www.lunabase.org/%7Efaber/Vau...are/hold_quiz/

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by cfii2007

Funny, I was always taught to triple the outbound course for wind correction......

As I understand it, you triple it to correct for the effect wind has during the turn outbound, the outbound leg, and the turn inbound.

I'm a drawer, but after I draw it out I do this to figure out the entry:

The way I do holding is just picture where I'm gonna be when I hit the fix and my relation to the inbound course. When I reach the fix, if the inbound course is going to be ahead and to the left, parallel. Ahead and to the right, tear drop. If the inbound course is behind me at all, direct. And of course, when on the boarder between two, use the one that requires the least amount of turning.

This has worked in every time for me so far. It's not accurate enough to use on a test, but in the air it has worked every time. I'm pretty sure I got this method from someone on here.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

I'm a drawer, but after I draw it out I do this to figure out the entry:

The way I do holding is just picture where I'm gonna be when I hit the fix and my relation to the inbound course. When I reach the fix, if the inbound course is going to be ahead and to the left, parallel. Ahead and to the right, tear drop. If the inbound course is behind me at all, direct. And of course, when on the boarder between two, use the one that requires the least amount of turning.

I'm not sure I understand this last part. One of the reason I draw the hold is that, once drawn (which includes my direction approaching the fix), the entry looks obvious to me.

Here's "Hold southwest of the [FIX] on the 220° radial. left turns. Maintain 8000'. Expect further clearance at 0000Z"



I'm curious what "course ahead or me, course behind me, left or right" add to it for you that you don't immediately see when looking at the picture?

BTW, Goldmember, I took a look at that site. Pretty good. I think it's similar to the method Rod Machado teaches.

[Blackhawk]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

As I understand it, you triple it to correct for the effect wind has during the turn outbound, the outbound leg, and the turn inbound.

I'm a drawer, but after I draw it out I do this to figure out the entry:

The way I do holding is just picture where I'm gonna be when I hit the fix and my relation to the inbound course. When I reach the fix, if the inbound course is going to be ahead and to the left, parallel. Ahead and to the right, tear drop. If the inbound course is behind me at all, direct. And of course, when on the boarder between two, use the one that requires the least amount of turning.

This has worked in every time for me so far. It's not accurate enough to use on a test, but in the air it has worked every time. I'm pretty sure I got this method from someone on here.

It depends on your speed. Lower speed such as a 172 you need a great wind angle correction. Higher speeds, you need less. So somewhere between 2-3 times works.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

I'm a drawer. I can draw the clearance as quickly as I can write it down so the method works for me. But it doesn't work for everyone - ever see people play Pictionary and see how bad some people are at drawing even simple relationships?

This is truly a "different strokes" issue.

I'm a drawer, but 99% of the time now I "draw" it in my mind, or "draw" it on the HSI in my mind. And my drawings look EXACTLY like what you just posted.

That was my preferred way of teaching it too. "Draw it until you don't need to draw it any more".

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Clocks

I'm a drawer, but 99% of the time now I "draw" it in my mind, or "draw" it on the HSI in my mind. And my drawings look EXACTLY like what you just posted.

That was my preferred way of teaching it too. "Draw it until you don't need to draw it any more".

I have a student right now who didn't need to draw it any more after the first time. OTOH, I still have a little difficulty visualizing the spatial relationships mentally, so continue to copy holding clearances in this graphic shorthand.

[minitour]

I just write it down and visualize it. I've always been pretty good at having an idea where I'm at in space.

Hold west of the ABC 090 Radial 10 DME fix maintain 5 thousand expect further clearance at 2100 time now 2015

"W ABC R090 10DF RT 5 2100/45"

W - West
ABC - ID
R090 10DF - Fix
RT - Unless I hear otherwise.
5 - Altitude
2100 - EFC Time
/45 - Time until EFC Time

Hold east of the ABC VOR on the 090 radial 10 mile legs maintain 5 thousand expect further clearance at 2100 time now 2015

"E ABC R090 10DL RT 5 2100/45"

E - East
ABC - ID
R090 - Fix/Radial
10DL - 10 Mile legs

I just cross the fix and turn outbound....then I figure out which way I need to turn to go back inbound and intercept the course. Whatever that ends up being....that's fine by me.

-mini