IPC

[stoki]

What is a run-down of stuff you guys go over on an IPC?

What do you base your decision off of, or what criteria do you use when judging if the student is ready to be signed off?

I'm sure everybody has their own thing that they do. What do you stress most to your students, and think is most important to cover?

[v1valarob]

Im not a II but I'm almost positive the instrument PTS has a table for IPC and what should be covered.

-Rob

[Nihon_Ni]

Originally Posted by v1valarob

Im not a II but I'm almost positive the instrument PTS has a table for IPC and what should be covered.

-Rob

You are absolutely right! See the table on page 16.

"Instrument Proficiency Check. 14 CFR part 61.57(d) sets forth the requirements for an instrument proficiency check. The person giving that check shall use the standards and procedures contained in this PTS when administering the check. A representative number of TASKs, as determined by the examiner/instructor, must be selected to assure the competence of the applicant to operate in the IFR environment. As a minimum, the applicant must demonstrate the ability to perform the TASKs as listed in the above chart. The person giving the check should develop scenarios to assess the pilot’s ADM and risk management skills during the IPC. "

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by stoki

What is a run-down of stuff you guys go over on an IPC?

What do you base your decision off of, or what criteria do you use when judging if the student is ready to be signed off?

I'm sure everybody has their own thing that they do. What do you stress most to your students, and think is most important to cover?

What you must cover has been answered and sticking with the "PC" tasks in the PTS and looking for meeting the PTS standards for each maneuver is your basic criteria. The pilot's performance on those should guide you on what areas may need some additional work.

Beyond that, the advice usually given about a FR makes sense here too: talk to the pilot, find out what kind of flying they do, and tailor the review to that.

[stoki]

Thanks for the replies.

What is required is required. But what I meant I guess was what do you guys as instructors think is something that isnt stressed enough, or that you emphasize on during an IPC. Or do you simply go over what is required by the PTS and nothing more?

What do you find most often students get rusty on? Or need extra training on? Other then their flying skills if they havent flown in a while.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by stoki

But what I meant I guess was what do you guys as instructors think is something that isnt stressed enough, or that you emphasize on during an IPC.

One question I ask, and never get the right answer, is:

An instrument approach protects you from hitting stuff when landing; what protects you from hitting stuff when departing?

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

One question I ask, and never get the right answer, is:

An instrument approach protects you from hitting stuff when landing; what protects you from hitting stuff when departing?

Hmmm. Well, I'll risk the embarrassment and say it's the takeoff climb gradient.

Or do you mean an Obstacle DP?

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Hmmm. Well, I'll risk the embarrassment and say it's the takeoff climb gradient.

Or do you mean an Obstacle DP?

All of the above. It's useful to know what the assumed climb gradient is (200 ft/nm) and the assumed altitude before making your first turn (400 ft AGL), when there is no ODP published. And now there's the Visual Climb Over Airport (VCOA).

[imasaluki]

I recommend a couple hours of ground instruction to pick his/her brain on instrument knowledge. Then, I'd recommend two flights. Make the first flight your "PTS" flight where you cover all of the tasks listed in the PTS for an IPC. Make the second flight a cross-country like he/she intends to conduct on a regular basis. Ideally this flight would be conducted on an IFR flight plan in actual conditions. An IPC that consists of only hood time is not a thorough checkout... but that's just my humble opinion.

[nosehair]

Originally Posted by imasaluki

I recommend a couple hours of ground instruction to pick his/her brain on instrument knowledge. Then, I'd recommend two flights.

OMG!! He dared to suggest two (2) hours of ground, and, get this; two (2) seperate flights.....what is he thinkin'?.....that this is supposed to somehow be a continuation of training with actual learning and skill improvement...??

Jus' kiddin', Sir. You are absolutely on the right track, there.

Just a little good-natured kiddin' to a newbie who still holds the ideal that we do these things for proficiency and not so much for 'legality'. You are a refreshing oasis in a very dry desert...

[moxiepilot]

Originally Posted by nosehair

OMG!! He dared to suggest two (2) hours of ground, and, get this; two (2) seperate flights.....what is he thinkin'?.....that this is supposed to somehow be a continuation of training with actual learning and skill improvement...??

Jus' kiddin', Sir. You are absolutely on the right track, there.

Just a little good-natured kiddin' to a newbie who still holds the ideal that we do these things for proficiency and not so much for 'legality'. You are a refreshing oasis in a very dry desert...

Yep, that's about the response you get when you suggest that.

I love the BFR too - why am I being charged for an hour of ground?

[cfii2007]

I believe the requirements are outlined in the FAR's and PTS books. Most of the IPC can be done in the sim, with the exception of a circling approach, which must be done in airplane.

[v1valarob]

Originally Posted by cfii2007

I believe the requirements are outlined in the FAR's and PTS books. Most of the IPC can be done in the sim, with the exception of a circling approach, which must be done in airplane.

While I do agree you can get down the procedures in a sim, and its a much cheaper way to go over things and understand whats going on without a stressful environment. Its nothing like the real thing. I have 1.6 hours of actual. That was back in August time. I am still instrument current, and I hop on our flight school sim once a week just to shoot a few approaches (and to kill time) but no way in hell would I wonder into the soup again without a II in the right seat watching my back. At least for a few hours.

-Rob

[stoki]

For a BFR for a guy who flies like 3 times a year usually do 2 or 2.5 hours of ground going over everything (considering they forgot almost everything) and then go out and fly. During flying I check their skills as pilots, navigating aircraft control, etc. Not just the maneuvers, although I do those just to shake the rust off. Always have trouble with landings, and for the most part I always tell them to come back to do a couple more T&G's before I sign them off.

Have not had a complaint yet, and if I ever hear one I will give them a 1,000 reasons why I am doing what I am doing.

Unless they know what they are doing and are current pilots then obviously this does not necassarily apply.

IPC I imagine I would do similar. Not a CFII yet, but was j/w about what people stress and do most with students.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by v1valarob

While I do agree you can get down the procedures in a sim, and its a much cheaper way to go over things and understand whats going on without a stressful environment. Its nothing like the real thing.

True. OTOH, there are emergencies that you can simulate in even the simplest FTD that you could not do in an airplane at all. When you hop into that sim, the CFII or IGI with you (assuming you're counting the time and approaches) should be adding some of those attempts to "kill" you while you are "killing time."

[exleardriver]

yep..procedures and emergencies..they have their place.

[imasaluki]

Originally Posted by nosehair

OMG!! He dared to suggest two (2) hours of ground, and, get this; two (2) seperate flights.....what is he thinkin'?.....that this is supposed to somehow be a continuation of training with actual learning and skill improvement...??

Jus' kiddin', Sir. You are absolutely on the right track, there.

Just a little good-natured kiddin' to a newbie who still holds the ideal that we do these things for proficiency and not so much for 'legality'. You are a refreshing oasis in a very dry desert...

Yea, well, if they don't want to do an IPC the way I want to do it... they can just go schedule an IPC ride with the local FSDO or DPE. They generally prefer to do it my way!

I agree sim has a proper place in training, but that guy/gal is going to do an IFR flight with me in some actual conditions before I sign my name on his/her IPC line.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by imasaluki

I agree sim has a proper place in training, but that guy/gal is going to do an IFR flight with me in some actual conditions before I sign my name on his/her IPC line.

I take it you are somewhere in the US where there is enough flyable actual to have a rule like that. It's kinda hard in those parts of the country with 340 VFR days a year.