CFI Initial

[Duck_Twacy]

Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but at least the audience is right...

Any recommendations on where to do a CFI Initial (and maybe the -II depending on $$)? Skymates is on the list, but any others?

I'm in central, VA, but willing to travel. I think going somewhere and immersing myself in it will be substantially quicker than my local FBO, plus I hear the local FSDO has an astronomical failure rate

[moxiepilot]

FSDO rumors never cease....

I honestly would recommend a local FBO, but then again I'm biased. This is not necessarily a rating to "get quick". I'd rather a CFI candidate "understand and correlate" and progress quickly over a mill where you get the ticket but not the material.

[wrxpilot]

Originally Posted by moxiepilot

FSDO rumors never cease....

I honestly would recommend a local FBO, but then again I'm biased. This is not necessarily a rating to "get quick". I'd rather a CFI candidate "understand and correlate" and progress quickly over a mill where you get the ticket but not the material.

I'm a big proponent of part 61 schools. But, IMO you learn to be a CFI be teaching, not by training. Just get the ticket via the cheapest, quickest route possible and start instructing.

[Duck_Twacy]

Originally Posted by moxiepilot

This is not necessarily a rating to "get quick".

By quick I mean "calendar quick". Most of the instructors at my FBO are part-time, and that coupled with the time of year - winter weather, away for Thanksgiving, in-laws in town for Christmas - and the next thing you know it's February. That's been my experience thus far.

My thought was that by doing something more immersive I could shorten the time - as in number of days - required.

[moxiepilot]

I understand what you mean by calandar quick. That's also what I was referencing.

There is no reason you can't commit an instructor whether it be at your FBO or another local one. All you need is someone willing to put 2 weeks of work in with you, ground.

You should have the maneuvers & teaching in 3 flights, maybe 5 tops.

I just don't see the need to spend $5-6k when you can spend $1.

[Crockrocket94]

Originally Posted by moxiepilot

I understand what you mean by calandar quick. That's also what I was referencing.

There is no reason you can't commit an instructor whether it be at your FBO or another local one. All you need is someone willing to put 2 weeks of work in with you, ground.

You should have the maneuvers & teaching in 3 flights, maybe 5 tops.

I just don't see the need to spend $5-6k when you can spend $1.

You absolutly MUST tell me of this 1 dollar cfi rating!!!!!

[Duck_Twacy]

Originally Posted by moxiepilot

I just don't see the need to spend $5-6k when you can spend $1.

Now you're speaking my language: less money always trumps less time...let me ask this: since there are no aeronautical experience requirements per se (at least that I can see) is it just practicing teaching all the basic maneuvers that we know and love, with a heavier emphasis on ground? In that case, it might actually take less time to do it here at home. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get it here as I think that's a nice segue into working as a CFI here

Oh, and a FSDO has to do the initial checkride, does a regular DE do the -II ride?

Thanks!

[bdhill1979]

Originally Posted by moxiepilot

I just don't see the need to spend $5-6k when you can spend $1.

Damn a $1?????

I thought I got a steal at $300

Originally Posted by Duck_Twacy

Oh, and a FSDO has to do the initial checkride, does a regular DE do the -II ride?

Thanks!

After the initial any DPE can do the add on ratings; and it is generally a much easier ride.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by Duck_Twacy

Oh, and a FSDO has to do the initial checkride, does a regular DE do the -II ride?

Once you have your initial CFI any addons will almost certainly be with a DE.

[moxiepilot]

Originally Posted by Duck_Twacy

Now you're speaking my language: less money always trumps less time...let me ask this: since there are no aeronautical experience requirements per se (at least that I can see) is it just practicing teaching all the basic maneuvers that we know and love, with a heavier emphasis on ground?

essentially, yes.

If you take the time to know the FOI by teaching it to your stuffed animals as if you are teaching a student; create your lesson plans for teaching ground for the basic flight maneuvers; create lesson plans for ground school topics like regs and aero - you will spend a heck of a lot less money.

In that case, it might actually take less time to do it here at home. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get it here as I think that's a nice segue into working as a CFI here

I'm not really opposed to obtaining a CFI at an FBO or aviation school as long as the CFI comes out knowing how to teach rather than being taught to the checkride. Either route, I think you end up spending less the more effort you put into the creation of these things before hand. Heck you could even see who is renting a plane and ask to fly right seat for practice in teaching various thinngs from start up to landing. With the right person that wont even cost you a dime!

Oh, and a FSDO has to do the initial checkride, does a regular DE do the -II ride?

Thanks!

Your first CFI rating (CFI, CFII or MEI) will be done with the FSDO. Any additional rating can be accomplished with a DPE.

Email me your address I have a gift for you.

[juskl]

My lesson plans ended up being very vast..... Something like 25 plus..... And they were pretty in depth. That took time. As did they getting the maneuvers down pat as the instructor and knowing and understanding completely what the heck I was doing. The writtens took a bit.......

I started in Sept and finished the following Jan..... That was keeping pretty steady on things..... My Oral was about 4 hours.... due to me knowing my stuff... Otherwise, it could have went upwards of 8 hours...

I don't see how all this could be done, learned and perfected in two weeks.... Not to mention the month wait that is going on with the various FSDO's..........

Cost's for me for everything ran about 6K for the CFI initial....

[SoCalAprch]

You will learn more your first 10 hours of instructing than all your aviation experience to that point. Now by all means be as prepared as possible but everything in those books is at best a good foundation to what you will learn when you start instructing. Just my two cents.

[juskl]

Absolutely............

[allison]

Originally Posted by Duck_Twacy

Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but at least the audience is right...

Any recommendations on where to do a CFI Initial (and maybe the -II depending on $$)? Skymates is on the list, but any others?

I'm in central, VA, but willing to travel. I think going somewhere and immersing myself in it will be substantially quicker than my local FBO, plus I hear the local FSDO has an astronomical failure rate

CFI Initial failure rate is 70-80% everywhere from what I hear. At least with the FSDO you don't have to pay for the checkride, or the re-take of the checkride

It makes me wonder though. It either proves the FAA IS out to get you or there is something seriously wrong with the system.

[juskl]

Honestly, I think it comes down to garbage instruction. What the FAA is expecting and what is being taught are two completely different things. However, the FAA is doing nothing about the schools teaching garbage instruction.......

I am glad the bar has been raised, but I think that as that occurs, then the quality of instruction from our Flight Schools should get better. Lets face it, there is a ton to know and perfect, and those of us that have chosen to do this for a while (and not just build time), are going to need to be at a higher standard. Our students are going to expect that.

Pilot mills hardly have enough people staying around for any length of time to get really good at teaching basic flight instruction let alone teach CFI candidates.

Honestly, we all should have probably paid our first students to have received instruction from us. I think we all learned more from them then they did from us.

[allison]

So I was thinking of some things to help you out. I had all of my lesson plans done before I started ground with my instructor. You can refer to the Aviation Instructors Handbook for how to setup a lesson plan. For each lesson plan, I had exacts. Exactly how I would approach everything. Then when I did ground with my instructor, I taught him what I had and he would critique it and tell me what I need to add, emphasize or leave out if I got too far in depth.

I don't think I spent more than $3-4k on my CFI and that seems excessive to me, I need to keep track of my money better. It was mostly ground work. I was there everyday. We didn't do a lot of flying, mostly to just keep everything fresh and to get through that initial break through of talking through everything and exactly what's going on with the plane when you do something to it. And learning my limits, like how far would I let the student take me before I take over.

AND if you want, you can message me your email address and I'll send you all of my CFI stuff with lesson plans for manuevers, knowledge stuff and notes, so you can see some before you start. Get a good base of other peoples lesson plans then put one together with everything you like, and covers all the material, of course

[Duck_Twacy]

PM Sent.

Thanks for everybody's suggestions. My instructor and I talked about it yesterday and I'm going to try to do it here at home (although my instructor admitted he's not a huge fan of doing spins...which isn't helping me feel any better abou it .) The first step is getting the writtens done, and that's something I can study on my own for.

As for going toe-to-toe with the FSDO, well, I'll try to be as prepared as I can be, and that's all I can do. I haven't had an oral yet where there weren't a few things I couldn't answer, now I'm terrified that one "I don't know" will result in a bust.

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by Duck_Twacy

PM Sent.

Thanks for everybody's suggestions. My instructor and I talked about it yesterday and I'm going to try to do it here at home (although my instructor admitted he's not a huge fan of doing spins...which isn't helping me feel any better abou it .)

If he is teaching CFIs, he should be comfortable doings spins in an aircraft that is approved for it.

[bdhill1979]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

If he is teaching CFIs, he should be comfortable doings spins in an aircraft that is approved for it.

Nobody should be instructing if the are not confident about spins

[C310_pilot]

Originally Posted by Duck_Twacy

PM Sent.

Thanks for everybody's suggestions. My instructor and I talked about it yesterday and I'm going to try to do it here at home (although my instructor admitted he's not a huge fan of doing spins...which isn't helping me feel any better abou it .) The first step is getting the writtens done, and that's something I can study on my own for.

As for going toe-to-toe with the FSDO, well, I'll try to be as prepared as I can be, and that's all I can do. I haven't had an oral yet where there weren't a few things I couldn't answer, now I'm terrified that one "I don't know" will result in a bust.

pm sent

[exleardriver]

Originally Posted by moxiepilot

Your first CFI rating (CFI, CFII or MEI) will be done with the FSDO. Any additional rating can be accomplished with a DPE.

that's the way we do it here at the fsdo in little rock, however, i have read threads where in other parts of the country, faa inspectors are so busy that they will often 'farm out' cfi intials to local dpe's. salt lake city fsdo is one that comes to mind. prior to this i'd never heard of a dpe doing an initial ride.

[majorityof1]

As for advice on your CFI checkride... Find an instructor who you are confident with. That instructor should not have a problem doing spins (in an appropriately rated airplane) and someone who you think is the epitome of an instructor....
Now that maybe a tall order, and I wish I had listened to this advice. I got mine from a guy that I don't want to fly with anymore (due to unwanted epic adventures) but I studied hard, did my lesson plans, and got a signoff. I did my checkride with the FSDO in Seattle and it was a very fair checkride. Present yourself professionally and don't say "I don't know" instead say "I don't know, but I know where to find it." Study hard and good luck!