Scary Spin

[ElyJs]

This is the first time I really got scared performing a spin I was giving my first spin endorsement today and entered a flat spin. I have some aerobatic training in a steen skybolt and some aerobat time but I have never before entered a flat spin. I consider myself proficient in spins and enjoy doing them on a fairly regular basis.

I was performing this manuever in a 1976M Cessna 172 weighted with a CG just inside the utility category. I was at 10,000' and asked my student to pull the power completely out and begin a standard rate turn to the left. I then had him go into a full left rudder skidding turn. With the power off all I could get was a strong buffet and a high turn rate for only a little bank. I then asked the student to give it some power. The plane responded by entering a spin with the nose pointed about 5 degrees below the horizon. I immediately grabbed the plane and recovered but my hands were definetely sweating. The plane still had enough airflow over the rudder for some effectiveness but it was very uncomfortable. To be honest I didn't know a cessna 172 could enter this kind of spin.

I will not be entering a spin this way again until I go up with a qualified instructor and wear a parachute. My first kinda scary experience with a student.

-Jason

[meritflyer]

Normal in a 172.

The only way to spin 172s is in a power on configuration. I've entered into several inverted and what appeared to be flat spins, by definition.

The aircraft is so stable, it'll recover with very little control inputs. I often told students just to "let go" so they could see how the plane would literally get itself out of the spin phase.

Go practice spins. They're nothing to be afraid of. You just never know when a student will get you into one and you're the only hope.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by ElyJs

To be honest I didn't know a cessna 172 could enter this kind of spin.

How do you know you were in a spin?

I agree that a C172 shouldn't go flat with the CG in the allowable range. Not likely to be certified that way.

[exleardriver]

doesn't sound like it entered a true spin. did the airspeed indicate zero? how many rotations did you count? takes a little time for the spin to go flat unless you started with a severely aft cg. did you use opposite rudder or did it 'correct itself'? a c-172 is a little difficult to get to spin, even in the utility category i typically need to carry around 2,000 rpm or stick like a case of oil in the baggage compartment. a c-150/152 spins much more readily..they both will recover in a few turns if you just release the controls..very docile spin characteristics within the utility category.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by exleardriver

stick like a case of oil in the baggage compartment.

Tsk, tsk, illegal. What's your name and address, again?

[exleardriver]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

Tsk, tsk, illegal. What's your name and address, again?

d.b. cooper's the name! 'oil in the back'...figure 'o speech doncha know..

[ElyJs]

I spin the airplane all the time. I an do them power on power off from slip from a skid 3 turn 5 turn, this was a true flat spin (or at least with only 5-10 degrees pitch down for at least 2 turns. We were allowing our spins to fully develop. Like I said I want to explore it a little further with an instructor. I will let you know how it goes (with parachutes).

-Jason

[USMCmech]

Originally Posted by ElyJs

this was a true flat spin

Unless you loaded your CG well past the aft limit, then no it wasn't. A true flat spin is nose level with rotation only through the vertical axis, and none about the roll axis. This is actually unrecoverable in most airplanes since there is no normal airflow over the controlls. This is why test pilots have drouge chutes installed for spin testing.

It was more than likely a true NORMAL spin, something the C172 does only rarely. 95% of the ime it only drops the nose into an incipient spin then morphs into a steep spiral.

[USMC-SGT]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Normal in a 172.

The only way to spin 172s is in a power on configuration. I've entered into several inverted and what appeared to be flat spins, by definition.

The aircraft is so stable, it'll recover with very little control inputs. I often told students just to "let go" so they could see how the plane would literally get itself out of the spin phase.

Go practice spins. They're nothing to be afraid of. You just never know when a student will get you into one and you're the only hope.

Inverted flat spins in a 172? Id be interested to see that, I probably just read it wrong

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by USMC-SGT

Inverted flat spins in a 172? Id be interested to see that, I probably just read it wrong

But can a 172 do a negative G push-over? That's the real question here.

[USMC-SGT]

what it can do and what it should do are different items.

I CAN do a hammerhead in a 172....but should I and is it approved for it?

[Ian J]

Uh... mine was a top gun reference.

[USMC-SGT]

ahhhhhhh I totally missed it!

boy do I feel sheepish

What I MEANT to say is that I have personally seen a Cessna 172 do a 4G negative dive while I was on top of him....INVERTED (in a 152 sparrow hawk conversion of course)

[mhcasey]

Keeping up diplomatic relations...

Originally Posted by USMC-SGT

ahhhhhhh I totally missed it!

boy do I feel sheepish

What I MEANT to say is that I have personally seen a Cessna 172 do a 4G negative dive while I was on top of him....INVERTED (in a 152 sparrow hawk conversion of course)

[SoCalAprch]

Highly doubt that you entered a true flat spin and are here to post about it. Heard they can be impossible to get out of if you enter one.
Isn't that what happened to Goose when he died? And maverick was good...

[FutrLftSeat82]

Originally Posted by USMC-SGT

ahhhhhhh I totally missed it!

boy do I feel sheepish

What I MEANT to say is that I have personally seen a Cessna 172 do a 4G negative dive while I was on top of him....INVERTED (in a 152 sparrow hawk conversion of course)

I thought it was a "-4G PUSHOVER"..."Ma'am...we were...INVERTED?!"..."YES, I know Goose!"... Just bustin' your balls dude...LOL