Baron 58 BFR/IPC tips

[jrh]

I just got a call from a guy who needs both a BFR and an IPC in his late model (2001 model year I think?) Baron 58 with a Jaguar conversion.

I told him I'd do it with him tomorrow evening.

Any insider tips to giving a thorough, safe BFR and IPC in this plane? I have zero time in Barons. All my experience has been in a Twin Commanche, Aztec E, and Turbo Seminole, in case any of you can compare the Baron's characteristics to one of those planes.

Thanks!

[Milesar]

If I am not mistaken, you need 5hrs of PIC in that make/model of aircraft before you can give dual in it.

The BFR should be done to the standards of the ratings held, and your instrument PTS has the info you need for an IPC check in the front table.

[oespinoza]

Originally Posted by Milesar

If I am not mistaken, you need 5hrs of PIC in that make/model of aircraft before you can give dual in it.

The BFR should be done to the standards of the ratings held, and your instrument PTS has the info you need for an IPC check in the front table.

You're correct, 5 hrs of PIC is needed in make and model before giving any dual. (FAR 61.195(f))

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by jrh

All my experience has been in a Twin Commanche, Aztec E, and Turbo Seminole, in case any of you can compare the Baron's characteristics to one of those planes.

They don't even compare to the Baron.

I've got plenty of B58 time, send him my way, I'll do it

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

I've got plenty of B58 time, send him my way, I'll do it

Not if I beat you to it!!

[milski]

Originally Posted by Milesar

If I am not mistaken, you need 5hrs of PIC in that make/model of aircraft before you can give dual in it.

The 5 hours are required only if the training is for a new certificate or rating.

61.195.(f) Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate.

[E6BAV8R]

Originally Posted by oespinoza

You're correct, 5 hrs of PIC is needed in make and model before giving any dual. (FAR 61.195(f))

As long as the Baron pilots' Bi-Annual is still within date than he isn't technically giving flight instruction; or doesn't have to.

As far as the BFR and IPC, I'd go with the Instrument Syllabus as far as the IPC and just a general overview of a Private PTS, unless he has a Commercial cert.

[milski]

Originally Posted by E6BAV8R

As long as the Baron pilots' Bi-Annual is still within date than he isn't technically giving flight instruction; or doesn't have to.

As far as the BFR and IPC, I'd go with the Instrument Syllabus as far as the IPC and just a general overview of a Private PTS, unless he has a Commercial cert.

He has to give at least one hour of flight instruction for the BFR, regardless of the Baron's pilot being still within two calendar years from the previous one or not.

[PanJet]

Originally Posted by milski

The 5 hours are required only if the training is for a new certificate or rating.

61.195.(f) Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate.

Neither a BFR nor an IPC are for the issuance of a certificate or rating, so it's okay without the 5 hours.

[USMCmech]

Originally Posted by PanJet

Neither a BFR nor an IPC are for the issuance of a certificate or rating, so it's okay without the 5 hours.

Same goes for rental checkouts, currency flights or anythig else that is not for a certificate or rating.

I've doen several BFRs in twins that I have never flown before.

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by USMCmech

I've done several BFRs in twins that I have never flown before.

Of course you have to ask yourself these two questions:

1) Will my employers (and/or his) insurance cover me in case of an accident?

2) Are you doing the person justice by giving a competency check, when you don't know anything about the equipment he is using?

[jrh]

A little follow up...I did the BFR/IPC last night and everything went well.

The pilot in question is very experienced. Former USAF pilot, been flying since 1977, was on track to become an astronaut before the Challenger explosion in the mid-80s, current CFI/MEI, went through FlightSafety's Baron course, flies his Baron weekly for both business and pleasure, also owns a Pitts that he flies and teaches aerobatics in regularly....he was a pleasure to fly with in general.

I held him to high standards and he easily exceeded all of them without any prompting. And it wasn't a short, easy little flight, either. We did stalls, a Vmc demo, drag demo, single engine ILS, single engine landing, partial panel ILS, VOR hold, GPS autopilot coupled approach, and much more...1.7 hours total. So yes, although I wasn't familiar with Baron operations, I can definitely say he demonstrated competency in every area I asked of him. He would have passed a commercial or instrument checkride without a doubt.

Had he been a low time private pilot looking for a BFR I would have been much more hesitant to agree to give the BFR.

When I first posted my question I was looking for tips more along the lines of Baron-specific problem spots that pilots can get in to. Particular scenarios where they might face a Vmc rollover in a Baron when they wouldn't in another type of twin, or something like that. I just wanted to tailor the check to his Baron as much as I could without having ever actually flown one. But thanks anyway.

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

Of course you have to ask yourself these two questions:

1) Will my employers (and/or his) insurance cover me in case of an accident?

2) Are you doing the person justice by giving a competency check, when you don't know anything about the equipment he is using?

#1 is a good point, but as long as you are not acting as the PIC, meaning his BFR is still current, it shouldn't be that big of an issue, but it is still something I would heavily consider.

#2 is an bad assumption. If you are an MEI, you obviously have met the standards of the PTS to instruct in Multi-Engine aircraft. You are giving a flight REVIEW. You are reviewing their flying skills and making suggestions. You may never have flown a Baron or not, but you can tell if they are meeting the standards that you have set. You would be correct if you are getting someone who is out of currency who rarely flies, then you would have to teach them quite a bit.

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

If you are an MEI, you obviously have met the standards of the PTS to instruct in Multi-Engine aircraft. You are giving a flight REVIEW. You are reviewing their flying skills and making suggestions. You may never have flown a Baron or not, but you can tell if they are meeting the standards that you have set.

Not exactly. Obviously this pilot was well prepared and it sounds like the CFI did a thorough job. Sure, any MEI can run out and do the demos and SE work in a twin. But a good knowledge of the systems and handling in the aircraft is VERY beneficial. The review is also to insure the pilot hasn't developed any habits that are against limitations and/or placards. I'm sure the pilot would like to know if he is operating in a manner that can damage his $1M investment.

jrh:
Congrats. Glad things went well, I'm sure the Baron is now on your wish list. You didn't say if you did an emergency gear extension or not. If not, I highly recommend the procedure for any future checkout/BFR.

Side note: I used to work for a major Beech dealer and routinely did insurance checkouts, BFR, IPCs in the Barons.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

You didn't say if you did an emergency gear extension or not. If not, I highly recommend the procedure for any future checkout/BFR.

Hope he's been working out!