CFII Instrument currency question

[bdhill1979]

I have not had any luck with with the search function so if this has already been asked forgive me:

Do the approaches, holds, and tracks/intercepts that you do as a CFII giving instruction to a student (who is actually flying the plane) count towards your Instrument currency?


I have gotten conflicting answers and cant find a definitive answer to the question anywhere.

Appreciate any responses in advance.

[CamYZ125]

I don't think so, and don't count them; unless you're flying the plane by reference to the instruments.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by bdhill1979

Do the approaches, holds, and tracks/intercepts that you do as a CFII giving instruction to a student (who is actually flying the plane) count towards your Instrument currency?

Assuming the normal situation - student under the hood and CFI acting as the required safety pilot (and giving instruction), no, of course not.

I'm curious as to what kind of argument you've heard that takes the instrument currency regulation and comes up with "I can get instrument current with my eyes wide open looking for traffic while someone else flies the airplane."

[bdhill1979]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

Assuming the normal situation - student under the hood and CFI acting as the required safety pilot (and giving instruction), no, of course not.

I'm curious as to what kind of argument you've heard that takes the instrument currency regulation and comes up with "I can get instrument current with my eyes wide open looking for traffic while someone else flies the airplane."

Exactly

I was talking to another instructor and he was saying he logs them all and counts them towards his currency. He said, he was "Acting PIC through the approach" so that means that it should be counted. I told him I didn't think that was how it was supposed to work, but he didn't listen.

I guess its his logbook, he can defend it when he has to.

[SIUav8er]

For currency, you have to be sole manipulator of the controls. So for instrument currency, unless you are under the hood or in actual with your hands on the controls you are not loging the approach/hold/nav tracking whil giving instruction.

I also log the approaches that are in actual IMC where I have to be on the controls with the student to help keep the plane right side up. I figure that is more difficult than being "sole" manipulator of the controls ...lol

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by SIUav8er

For currency, you have to be sole manipulator of the controls.

It doesn't say that. It says you have to "perform" the approach in actual or simulated IFR in order to log it.

That difference in wording has led to some interesting discussions about whether a CFII may log his student's approaches when they are done in actual. If you're curious, I have a summary of the positions taken in that discussion on my website:
http://www.midlifeflight.com/faq/faq.php?s=2#5

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by bdhill1979

I guess its his logbook, he can defend it when he has to.

Hopefully he'll never have an accident or incident where he needs to present his logbook for investigatory examination. Certificate actions seeking revocation of all FAA certificates for logbook falsification under FAR 61.59 isn't pretty.

[bLizZuE]

For whatever reason, I'm under the impression that if it's done in actual you're allowed to log it as a CFII. Perhaps that's just word-o-mouth learning, I don't know.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by bLizZuE

For whatever reason, I'm under the impression that if it's done in actual you're allowed to log it as a CFII. Perhaps that's just word-o-mouth learning, I don't know.

You're definitely allowed to log the time as actual. Whether you are allowed to log the approach is something that gets argued a lot and is the subject of my FAQ.

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by bLizZuE

For whatever reason, I'm under the impression that if it's done in actual you're allowed to log it as a CFII. Perhaps that's just word-o-mouth learning, I don't know.

Myself and about 15 other instructors at my flight school think the EXACT same thing.

[cfii2007]

I know as a CFII you can log the actual IFR time when acting as a flight instructor.

I don't think you can log the approaches though.