ATP rating signoff from CFI (MEI)?

[higney85]

I am not sure where/how to look up this question. Could I (with a CFI/II/MEI) sign off someone to get their ATP rating (in something such as a duchess?)... I have always understood the answer to be yes, but not too sure where I could find it... Thanks...


Also- has anyone signed off someone for the ATP rating?

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by higney85

I am not sure where/how to look up this question. Could I (with a CFI/II/MEI) sign off someone to get their ATP rating (in something such as a duchess?)...

No signoff required for an ATP. However, he does need training, which you can provide.

[higney85]

hmm.. I was hoping I could make it the magic #10.. I need to find the reg on the ATP stuff..

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by higney85

hmm.. I was hoping I could make it the magic #10.. I need to find the reg on the ATP stuff..

Well, if he fails, he will then need a recommendation.

But if you're looking for a renewal, you only need five. But if you want a Gold Seal, you'll need 10.

Anyway, it's possible that FSDO might allow your training endorsement to count as a signoff. The actual reg for renewal says "endorsed at least five students for a practical test". It doesn't say what endorsement.

[Cessnaflyer]

I thought you had to have the ATP rating as a CFI to provide the instruction

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by Cessnaflyer

I thought you had to have the ATP rating as a CFI to provide the instruction

Nope. Reg just says "authorized instructor."

[higney85]

I have 9 signoffs, just want the last 1 for the gold seal... I am also at a 121 so I can't do this "for hire" but I have a friend with 2300+ hours and all the requirements and a plane to use... Just needs a little prep for the ATP practical and I was trying to make it work for the gold seal..

[BuickCFI]

what does the gold seal give you? Just curious, i might try to get one some day

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by higney85

I am also at a 121 so I can't do this "for hire"

Pinnacle doesn't allow you to engage in Commercial flying, which is what you'd be doing if you instructed this guy, regardless of whether or not money exchanged hands.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

what does the gold seal give you? Just curious, i might try to get one some day

Zilch. Sorta like getting a certificate for "Perfect Attendance".

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

Zilch. Sorta like getting a certificate for "Perfect Attendance".

darn, nothing on your certificate either?

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

darn, nothing on your certificate either?

The little insignia becomes gold. No one will notice unless you point it out to them.

[higney85]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

Pinnacle doesn't allow you to engage in Commercial flying, which is what you'd be doing if you instructed this guy, regardless of whether or not money exchanged hands.

if I do it for free how is that any different than flying with a friend or (eventually) teaching my own kid how to fly.... There are many guys that are 121 pilots that stil fly and use the CFI ticket, just for free and typically with/for friends and family.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by higney85

if I do it for free how is that any different than flying with a friend or (eventually) teaching my own kid how to fly.... There are many guys that are 121 pilots that stil fly and use the CFI ticket, just for free and typically with/for friends and family.

I think the main issue here is that Pinnacle wants all your available Commercial time. Any time you operate as a flight instructor gets deducted from what you have available for Pinnacle. I don't know how your flight hours change as you get more senior, but I don't think this is nearly the problem for Fedex pilots, since they don't time out like you guys do. But I vaguely recall someone saying they're supposed to get permission from the Chief Pilot.

I have a FAA letter of interp that says that time flight instructing is deducted from available commercial time, which I can post when I get home, but what's more immediately relevant for you is to find out how your contract reads. Still, I'm not aware that the transfer of money has ever been the determining characteristic of using your commercial privileges.

As for what other guys are doing, yeah, I know some Pinnacle guys who continued to do such things as pipeline patrol, but other Pinnacle pilots said they'd get fired if they were caught. Most Pinnacle guys are eager not to be perceived as giving flight instruction. One guy I know takes his 5 year son flying and fills out the logbook for him, but doesn't sign it.

[higney85]

I know what you are saying and this isn't even going to happen anyway. I don't have 5 hours in a duchess (all seminole/navajo/twin cessna) and the scenario I am in would look too fishy- I don't need that. As it stands right now I will be right at 1000 this year unless I really scale back my flying so I am not in this for the flight time, and frankly after flying a jet I don't see the point instructing in a small piston twin. I'm not going to get into the legal argument over the instruction pro-bono because I have heard this argument soo many times that it is just frustrating. I had the goal of getting my gold seal and after november the chance is gone... I am just one signoff short... Owell.. I also figure it would be appropriate for another instructor to make a couple bucks and get the twin time. If you are in memphis and are an MEI give me a PM cause I have a student for ya...

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by higney85

I know what you are saying and this isn't even I am in would look too fishy- I don't need that.

Indeed it would, and it would suck to risk your job for something as worthless as a Gold Seal.

<<I'm not going to get into the legal argument over the instruction pro-bono because I have heard this argument soo many times that it is just frustrating. >>

I think you may be confusing this with the "compensation" discussion. This one pertains only to what "Commercial flying" is, and the only defensible definition is any flying that requires a Commercial certificate.

<<If you are in memphis and are an MEI give me a PM cause I have a student for ya...>>

I appreciate that, but I have mostly Seneca time; I'm not checked out in the Duchess either. If I wanted the ME time badly enough, I could fix that this weekend, but I've got a pretty full plate over the next few weeks as it is. There are others who would be more grateful for it. Will you send him to Downtown Aviation or AirVenture?

[higney85]

I think I will send him to airventure... as far as commercial flying- part 91 stuff does count... We even do it at pncl in regards to repo flights, mx flights, and charters- its part 91 yet we are getting paid so its calculated into the flight limits. Compensation is compensation (in the form of money, gift, sexual favors, etc), commercial time is any time "for compensation or hire" or done under part 135, 121, or even 91 when being PAID. Just flying around the patch for fun doesn't require any approval from a CP.

[bLizZuE]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

The little insignia becomes gold. No one will notice unless you point it out to them.

don't tell that to a gold seal instructor