CFI checkride plan of action

[wanabe]

Does anyone have a CFI checkride plan of action that they can share? I am interested to see how others have approached this. Did you base your plan strictly off the PTS start to finish?

Thanks in advance.

Todd

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by wanabe

Does anyone have a CFI checkride plan of action that they can share? I am interested to see how others have approached this. Did you base your plan strictly off the PTS start to finish?

Thanks in advance.

Todd

Are you an examiner? Examiners are the ones who develop a "Plan of Action," not the candidate.

[bLizZuE]

The candidate should have a plan of action for the CFI checkride. If the examiner wants to change anything, they will.

(141 experience speaking, 61 world, I don't know)

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by bLizZuE

The candidate should have a plan of action for the CFI checkride.

The same PTS is used for Part 61 vs 141 and there is no requirement for a "Plan of Action" except for the examiner. Can you cite a reference that says differently?

And the OP does not appear to be referring to a Lesson Plan.

[psalm91]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

The same PTS is used for Part 61 vs 141 and there is no requirement for a "Plan of Action" except for the examiner. Can you cite a reference that says differently?

And the OP does not appear to be referring to a Lesson Plan.

I believe he said Blizzue said *should* because although there is NOT a reference to the CFI candidate preparing a "plan of action" and the PTS DOES say "The examiner shall select....", a CFI candidate who shows up with a plan of action shows that he is serious about assuming the role of an instructor, not a student. Numerous people from my school have failed the CFI checkride precisely because they do not see themselves as instructors on the checkride; they see themselves as students, still asking the DE's opinion on the weather, and if they think the applicant should do this or that, assuming that the DE will scan for traffic, etc. - and that's the kiss of death where I am from.

That being said, I think that showing up with a plan of action shows good preparation, and even if the DE changes it, I can't help but believe it would give anything else but a positive impression (provided that the plan makes sense; i.e. your not moving from ground ref to higher altitude ops, then back down to ground ref again).

My .02

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by psalm91

Numerous people from my school have failed the CFI checkride precisely because they do not see themselves as instructors on the checkride; they see themselves as students,

I agree and the candidate has ample opportunity to demonstrate those leadership skills while performing the tasks that the Examiner assigns without trying to be an Examiner himself.

<<That being said, I think that showing up with a plan of action shows good preparation, and even if the DE changes it, I can't help but believe it would give anything else but a positive impression>>

On the other hand, it seems a bit presumptuous on the part of the candidate and also shows a misunderstanding of the relationship between the candidate and the examiner.

A candidate preparing for a CFI checkride has plenty of stuff to study and prepare without adding a meaningless task to his list.

[moxiepilot]

i have to go with tgrayson here. coming in with a poa is like setting the stage of, "okay, look here buddy. IM in charge and going to tell you what to do." that's fine if youre yeager, but you are a candidate for a checkride. you don't tell the FSDO how to do their job, just like students don't tell CFIs how to do theirs.

every few weeks someone comes through the door telling me how they are going to get their training done. i listen, say, "uh huh, okay" then address the training that they will receive. The speech usually starts something like, I appreciate your input on how you would like to begin your training and your enthusiasm is fantastic, but you are coming to me for my experience to teach you. In my experience I've found that this approach to training is effective..."

All I mean to say is that they might have all the ideas in the world and I listen, but it doesnt change my plan of action a bit, just like yours wont for the checkride.

spend your time doing somethig else productive

[bLizZuE]

It's not like it takes a whole lot of brain power to write a plan of action.

I came to mine with a plan of action, and he changed what he wanted, and kept the rest. No big deal.

[wanabe]

I am doing my training Part61. My instructor is requiring us to take a plan of action to the checkride. Every CFI initial candidate the school has produced has done this and they have a 100% pass rate.

As already mentioned, the intent is to show that you are prepared and ready be the Instructor versus the student.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by bLizZuE

It's not like it takes a whole lot of brain power to write a plan of action.

No, it doesn't, but the only reason that people are doing it is that they "heard somewhere" that it was expected, and I'm against this sort of justification for adopting behavior. I'm a firm believer that either there should be a clear, definitive reason for doing something or it should be dispensed with. Most aviation myths perpetuate themselves because the person hearing them thinks it's safer to worry more, rather than less.

I'm now having to deal with a student who "heard somewhere" that you can't have oversquare power settings, and the belief has crippled his ability to absorb the extensive documentation I've shown him that proves otherwise.

[t82]

Just call the examiner and ask.

[bLizZuE]

Originally Posted by t82

Just call the examiner and ask.

ding ding ding

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

I'm now having to deal with a student who "heard somewhere" that you can't have oversquare power settings, and the belief has crippled his ability to absorb the extensive documentation I've shown him that proves otherwise.

I asked my CFI about this when doing my complex endorsement back in 2003, and he said the same thing, even though the POH clearly showed power settings in the cruise chart that contradicted it.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

I asked my CFI about this when doing my complex endorsement back in 2003, and he said the same thing, even though the POH clearly showed power settings in the cruise chart that contradicted it.

Yes. We all know about the law of primacy, but it seems to me that one mental mechanism that makes this law true is that whenever we see information that contradicts what we believe, we search for some other reason to keep on believing the way we already do.

When I showed my student those POH power settings, the MP showed at most 1" above the RPM, so he concluded that 1" was the maximum amount of "oversquare" we could go. I pointed out that the cruise settings were just examples, rather than limitations. My next step will be to show him the Lycoming Engine Operators Manual which actually does show the limitations on the engine. In general, the limitations on "oversquare" are about 5" of MP.

[soonerpilot06]

With regards to a plan of action, I used one on my CFI checkride and the examiner said it was fine. He liked the fact that I came up with it and took control of the flight. It also provided me with a couple of benefits.

1) I knew what I had to do when I needed to do it. (No surprises)

2) It allowed me to analyze rather than teach one of my maneuvers that I am not quite as consistent with.

If you make one up, it should only take a few minutes. The worst thing that can happen is the examiner will say no to it. At the very least, he/she may alter it slightly.