who has spun a 172?

BuickCFI · March 30th, 2007, 20:47

i never have, only a Super Cub and a Super Decathlon. I have a student with a 172B and i am excited(he isn't so much, but i am (

)

anyway, i can only imagine they are pretty agile/non violent in a spin? whoever has done this do you have any tips?

Recovery, just use PARE? the manual doesn't give a recovery procedure

Screaming_Emu · March 30th, 2007, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

Recovery, just use PARE? the manual doesn't give a recovery procedure

did you look in the "normal operations" manual? Also, if it isn't your plane, be careful about spinning it. Spinning can screw up the gyros. If your student isn't crazy about spins, don't do them unless he's doing his CFI. All you're going to do is scare him away.

desertdog71 · March 30th, 2007, 20:55

Power On, Clean, Uncoordinated. That works about 50% of the time to get it to spin.

Recovery is opposite rudder, power to idle, pull up.

Most times it will end up being a steep spiral and not an actual spin.

BuickCFI · March 30th, 2007, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

did you look in the "normal operations" manual? Also, if it isn't your plane, be careful about spinning it. Spinning can screw up the gyros. If your student isn't crazy about spins, don't do them unless he's doing his CFI. All you're going to do is scare him away.

yes, but the manual isn't very detailed, it is from 1961 afterall..... Spins will come later in his training, just so he can experience it one time and be aware that they can happen. i am just trying to learn all i can since i only have 7 hours in a 172 (N model), considering i am from UND i only have experience in the PA28's......

Old Pete · March 30th, 2007, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertdog71

Most times it will end up being a steep spiral and not an actual spin.

Watch the airspeed. If its rapidly climbing instead of hovering just above the stall speed you are in a spiral not a spin. Make sure the wings are level before "pull up"

cre8flyer · March 30th, 2007, 22:01

The 172 hates to spin. You have to keep full rudder if you want to keep it in the spin.

seagull · March 30th, 2007, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

did you look in the "normal operations" manual? Also, if it isn't your plane, be careful about spinning it. Spinning can screw up the gyros. If your student isn't crazy about spins, don't do them unless he's doing his CFI. All you're going to do is scare him away.

When I was a CFI, I not only demonstrated, but had students demonstrate spins and recoveries. I NEVER soloed a student without doing the above, and NEVER lost one due to their being "scared". I would guess if the CFI gets scared it might have that effect, though!

This wasn't a small sample, by the way. I probably have 2000 hours of teaching primary students, and most got their private before 55 total time, so that's a LOT of students.

seagull · March 30th, 2007, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by cre8flyer

The 172 hates to spin. You have to keep full rudder if you want to keep it in the spin.

Understatement. Sometimes a little goose of power just as you kick the rudder and yanked that last bit of stick back would help.

Just make sure you follow the limitations and do a wt and balance to ensure you're in the utility envelope.

Ian J · March 30th, 2007, 22:28

I had no idea a 172 could be legally spun! What year model is this, and is it common?

ajf005 · March 30th, 2007, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinookDriver

I had no idea a 172 could be legally spun! What year model is this, and is it common?

Sure it can, as long as the training is being done towards a rating. 172 spins aren't bad, very easy to recover. The POH even states for a more pronounced spin add opposite aileron so its definitely legal.

montanapilot · March 30th, 2007, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinookDriver

I had no idea a 172 could be legally spun! What year model is this, and is it common?

as long as there aren't people in the backseat.

Ian J · March 30th, 2007, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajf005

Sure it can, as long as the training is being done towards a rating. 172 spins aren't bad, very easy to recover. The POH even states for a more pronounced spin add opposite aileron so its definitely legal.

No, I mean every 172 I have flown has been in the normal category.

seagull · March 30th, 2007, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinookDriver

No, I mean every 172 I have flown has been in the normal category.

Every one that I have seen has a section on the weight and balance envelope that is for utility, just have to be in it. Also, limitations section for peeps in the back seats.

Ian J · March 30th, 2007, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by seagull

Every one that I have seen has a section on the weight and balance envelope that is for utility, just have to be in it. Also, limitations section for peeps in the back seats.

Interesting... I'll have to check that.

EDIT: My bad... you guys are absolutely right! Never noticed that before.

SmitteyB · March 30th, 2007, 23:29

Ditto what was mentioned above it certainly does not like to spin.

If you get it into the incipient spin and let it do its thing, then pull the power back the auto-rotation will stop, no need for pilot control input. At least the SP's that is.

Pretty impressive that Cessna built such a stubborn and safe piece of equipment.

BuickCFI · March 30th, 2007, 23:47

well this is the B model so, 3rd revision of the airplane, still a fast back with no rear window, max gross 2200, utility 1950. with 32 gals. of fuel me and my student will fall into the utility envelope. the manual states it can be spun, entry airspeed is slow deceleration, nothing else in the manual talks about spins. The manual for this airplane is about 1/6th the size of the current new model Cessna 172

mojo6911 · March 31st, 2007, 00:11

Go half tanks and disconnect the gyros. You will be lucky to get two turns out of it before it just stays in a nose-dive. Not very impressive. Try to get a 150-152, I did my initial spin training in those, and they turn quite a bit.

The spin recovery for a 172 it just let go of the controls and reduce power, despite what the book says.

Andrew_VT · March 31st, 2007, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

considering i am from UND i only have experience in the PA28's......

Did you ever spin a PA-28? Ive never done it because there is a placard in ours that says not too. Is it legal though?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cre8flyer

The 172 hates to spin. You have to keep full rudder if you want to keep it in the spin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

well this is the B model so, 3rd revision of the airplane, still a fast back with no rear window

It's all about that dorsal fin they added later on (I think it got bigger at one point too). If this plane has the fastback it probably also has the straight tail, and it should spin much better. I've never spun a 172 because I would never intentionally spin a plane I also fly in the clouds, but I've spun c150s and c140s with the fast back and straight tail, and 150s and 152s with the back window and dorsal fin and the ones without the fin are much much more fun! Oh and spins are awesome, academy kids dont know what they're missing.

mikecweb · March 31st, 2007, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertdog71

Power On, Clean, Uncoordinated. That works about 50% of the time to get it to spin.

Recovery is opposite rudder, power to idle, pull up.

Most times it will end up being a steep spiral and not an actual spin.

Might wanna consider re-wording that recovery as that could get people into trouble.

BuickCFI · March 31st, 2007, 00:59

PA28s are not approved for spins, nor have i ever tried to spin one. i did my CFI spin training in a Super Decathlon. The first airplane i ever spun though was the Super Cub

Andrew_VT · March 31st, 2007, 01:04

Google is great...

>>With a styling concession to the times, the rounded, art-deco tail of the 170B disappeared to be replaced with a more severe, rectilinear unit more representative of the 1950's. The era of the tail fin was upon us.

>>The C-172 evolved slowly over the years with most of the styling changes coming one at a time. The square tail, for instance, disappeared in 1960 with the introduction of the 172A. The new swept tail is slightly different than what we see today, because the fuselage shape remained the same. The older fastback fuselage had enough side area that a dorsal fin wasn't needed. When the fuselage was cut down for the "Omnivision" rear windows in 1963 with the 172D, the engineers had to compensate for the loss in side area by attaching a dorsal fin. That became the tail most recognized by the Pepsi Generation.

So... ignore what I said I thought was the reason the older cessnas seem to spin better.

seagull · March 31st, 2007, 01:16

C-150 spins better than a 152, more elevator authority.

mojo6911 · March 31st, 2007, 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by seagull

C-150 spins better than a 152, more elevator authority.

I thought the only difference between a 150 and 152 was the engine?. I may be wrong...

seagull · March 31st, 2007, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo6911

I thought the only difference between a 150 and 152 was the engine?. I may be wrong...

You are!

Elevator authority, flaps, engine, several other things a bit less significant. I don't recall them all now, but they were outlined when the 152 was introduced in about 1977.

Blackhawk · March 31st, 2007, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by montanapilot

as long as there aren't people in the backseat.

NOT quite true. Depending on the fuel load and model, you can be outside the utility category with two people in a 172. Normal category= no spins. Utility=spins. Same in the 152. There have been a few accidents where 152s have been spun while loaded in the normal category and could not be recovered. Maybe the same for the 172, but I have not heard of any.

March 30th, 2007, 20:47	#1
BuickCFI Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South of the Border Posts: 1,937	who has spun a 172? i never have, only a Super Cub and a Super Decathlon. I have a student with a 172B and i am excited(he isn't so much, but i am ( ) anyway, i can only imagine they are pretty agile/non violent in a spin? whoever has done this do you have any tips? Recovery, just use PARE? the manual doesn't give a recovery procedure __________________ CFI, CFII, MEI -Why is it when two planes almost hit each other it is called a near miss? Shouldn't it be called a near hit?

March 30th, 2007, 20:55	#3
desertdog71 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: KIDP/KCNU Posts: 3,007	Re: who has spun a 172? Power On, Clean, Uncoordinated. That works about 50% of the time to get it to spin. Recovery is opposite rudder, power to idle, pull up. Most times it will end up being a steep spiral and not an actual spin. __________________ www.flywhiteair.com http://www.myspace.com/desertdog71 Following message is for SkyCougar. Took my chances on a big jet plane, Never let them tell you that they're all the same.

March 30th, 2007, 22:01	#6
cre8flyer Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 171	Re: who has spun a 172? The 172 hates to spin. You have to keep full rudder if you want to keep it in the spin.

March 30th, 2007, 22:28	#9
Ian J Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nashville Posts: 6,000 Blog Entries: 7	Re: who has spun a 172? I had no idea a 172 could be legally spun! What year model is this, and is it common? __________________

March 30th, 2007, 23:29	#15
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,957	Re: who has spun a 172? Ditto what was mentioned above it certainly does not like to spin. If you get it into the incipient spin and let it do its thing, then pull the power back the auto-rotation will stop, no need for pilot control input. At least the SP's that is. Pretty impressive that Cessna built such a stubborn and safe piece of equipment.

March 30th, 2007, 23:47	#16
BuickCFI Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South of the Border Posts: 1,937	Re: who has spun a 172? well this is the B model so, 3rd revision of the airplane, still a fast back with no rear window, max gross 2200, utility 1950. with 32 gals. of fuel me and my student will fall into the utility envelope. the manual states it can be spun, entry airspeed is slow deceleration, nothing else in the manual talks about spins. The manual for this airplane is about 1/6th the size of the current new model Cessna 172 __________________ CFI, CFII, MEI -Why is it when two planes almost hit each other it is called a near miss? Shouldn't it be called a near hit?

March 31st, 2007, 00:11	#17
mojo6911 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: GKY Posts: 1,747	Re: who has spun a 172? Go half tanks and disconnect the gyros. You will be lucky to get two turns out of it before it just stays in a nose-dive. Not very impressive. Try to get a 150-152, I did my initial spin training in those, and they turn quite a bit. The spin recovery for a 172 it just let go of the controls and reduce power, despite what the book says.

March 31st, 2007, 00:59	#20
BuickCFI Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South of the Border Posts: 1,937	Re: who has spun a 172? PA28s are not approved for spins, nor have i ever tried to spin one. i did my CFI spin training in a Super Decathlon. The first airplane i ever spun though was the Super Cub __________________ CFI, CFII, MEI -Why is it when two planes almost hit each other it is called a near miss? Shouldn't it be called a near hit?

March 31st, 2007, 01:04	#21
Andrew_VT Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vermont Posts: 617	Re: who has spun a 172? Google is great... >>With a styling concession to the times, the rounded, art-deco tail of the 170B disappeared to be replaced with a more severe, rectilinear unit more representative of the 1950's. The era of the tail fin was upon us. >>The C-172 evolved slowly over the years with most of the styling changes coming one at a time. The square tail, for instance, disappeared in 1960 with the introduction of the 172A. The new swept tail is slightly different than what we see today, because the fuselage shape remained the same. The older fastback fuselage had enough side area that a dorsal fin wasn't needed. When the fuselage was cut down for the "Omnivision" rear windows in 1963 with the 172D, the engineers had to compensate for the loss in side area by attaching a dorsal fin. That became the tail most recognized by the Pepsi Generation. So... ignore what I said I thought was the reason the older cessnas seem to spin better.

March 31st, 2007, 01:16	#22
seagull Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,045	Re: who has spun a 172? C-150 spins better than a 152, more elevator authority.

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