CFII as initial

[OU812]

Anyone do it? Can you do it? Anyone know where a good program is?

[cmsuav8r]

I know I guy here who did it, so it can be done.

[MichaelCPS]

I would say the CFII as the initial is the way to go.

Michael

[nosehair]

Originally Posted by MichaelCPS

I would say the CFII as the initial is the way to go.

Why? I would say it's not. Unless instrument instructing is all you are going to do.

[MichaelCPS]

Originally Posted by nosehair

Why? I would say it's not. Unless instrument instructing is all you are going to do.

I personally think the CFII with an FAA is more Objective. There is no grey area. I have sent too many CFI's for the CFI-SEL-Initial to the FAA where the Inspectors critiqued maneuvers such as the chandelle, steep spiral, lazy eight, etc etc in a subjective manner. With the CFII ride, you are either at MDA, or you are not. You are either on the LOC/GPS/VOR/GS, or you aren't. I would prefer to send a student for the CFI ride to an examiner who has had recent experience teaching the commercial maneuvers, rather than send them to inspectors at the FAA that have just been critiquing them for years.

A lot of the large flight schools make the MEI or CFII the initial ride. I wonder why?

Michael

[BajtheJino]

I know several people that took this route. In hindsight I kinda wish I had.

[WAFlyBoy]

I took my CFII ride as my initial, and would recommend it. The single-I and MEI are easy add-ons with a DE.

[mtsu_av8er]

I did my CFII as my initial. I think that it was one of the smartest moves that I've made. First off, it kept me from getting my CFI and then making excuses as to why I couldn't get my -II (no money, too busy, etc). I had no choice but to keep going - if I wanted to work, that is.I also think that it made the whole process a little bit easier. At the time, I was doing more IFR flying than anything (ILS's and arcs have always been more fun to me than poker runs and low-level buzzing). So, why not go into what's called the hardest of the checkrides with my strong arm?I'd say do it, if you're really strong on IFR stuff. It's still the initial, you know . . . it'll whip you!

[mojo6911]

Not having the CFI limits you as far as job possibilities. I got a job as a CFI, and am going to complete my CFII shortly. Some FSDO's prefer that you NOT do the II as the initial.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by MichaelCPS

A lot of the large flight schools make the MEI or CFII the initial ride.

I've been told that the Part 141 requirements are lower when doing the -II first. Possibly the same is true with the MEI, but I suspect the motivation is to get as much multi time as possible.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

Not having the CFI limits you as far as job possibilities.

Nobody is talking about doing ONLY the CFII . . . just doing it first.

Some FSDO's prefer that you NOT do the II as the initial.

Just go to a different FSDO or DE. They really don't have THAT much say in the matter, when you think about it. That's almost like saying that some FSDOs don't like you to identify intersections with DME.

OK, bad analogy, but you get my point . . .

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Nobody is talking about doing ONLY the CFII . . . just doing it first.



Just go to a different FSDO or DE. They really don't have THAT much say in the matter, when you think about it. That's almost like saying that some FSDOs don't like you to identify intersections with DME.

OK, bad analogy, but you get my point . . .

I realize that they aren't talking about just doing the CFII, but you can work the same day you get your CFI, but it my be harded to find a job quickly with the II only.

Some people may only be limited physically to one FSDO, so it is a good idea to check with your FSDO before you go.

[BajtheJino]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

Some people may only be limited physically to one FSDO, so it is a good idea to check with your FSDO before you go.

FSDO CANNOT tell me what order to do my ratings. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS whose salaries are paid by my TAX DOLLARS.
People should not be intimidated by the FAA.


Am I the only one?

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by BajtheJino

FSDO CANNOT tell me what order to do my ratings. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS whose salaries are paid by my TAX DOLLARS.
People should not be intimidated by the FAA.


Am I the only one?

I agree 100%. Some people are scared of them, though.

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by BajtheJino

FSDO CANNOT tell me what order to do my ratings. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS whose salaries are paid by my TAX DOLLARS.
People should not be intimidated by the FAA.


Am I the only one?

Flying airplanes is not a right, it is a privilege, which is granted to you by the FAA. Yes, they can dictate whether or not they want to do the initial CFI or CFII if they like. If you really want to push them, go ahead and see how many times it takes you to pass the checkride.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

Yes, they can dictate whether or not they want to do the initial CFI or CFII if they like.

They can decide if they want to do it, but not if you can.

[CFIse]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

Flying airplanes is not a right, it is a privilege, which is granted to you by the FAA. Yes, they can dictate whether or not they want to do the initial CFI or CFII if they like. If you really want to push them, go ahead and see how many times it takes you to pass the checkride.

Riiiight, except they are also a government agency who cannot invent arbitrary rules depending on what side of the bed they got out off that morning.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

Flying airplanes is not a right, it is a privilege, which is granted to you by the FAA. Yes, they can dictate whether or not they want to do the initial CFI or CFII if they like. If you really want to push them, go ahead and see how many times it takes you to pass the checkride.

Flying airplanes is not a right, it is a privilege, and one that is subject to rules and regulations that apply to the FAA just as they apply to pilots. Sure, there are bozos in the FAA who get off on power and exceed their authority, but I really don't think it's helpful to answer a question about the rules with the "someone in the FAA with nothing to go on other than his attitude might not like it" answer.

After all, you could apply that analysis to every question:

"I flew from Long Island to Kansas City solo. May I log it as a cross country?"
"No! Some jerk in the FAA might not like it."

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

Flying airplanes is not a right, it is a privilege, and one that is subject to rules and regulations that apply to the FAA just as they apply to pilots. Sure, there are bozos in the FAA who get off on power and exceed their authority, but I really don't think it's helpful to answer a question about the rules with the "someone in the FAA with nothing to go on other than his attitude might not like it" answer.

After all, you could apply that analysis to every question:

"I flew from Long Island to Kansas City solo. May I log it as a cross country?"
"No! Some jerk in the FAA might not like it."

Excuse me, but did you even bother to read my reply? I said some FSDOs prefer that you do not II first . It is a good idea to check before hand, as any checkride can be very subjective, especially with the FSDO. You don't want to get on their bad side and come in with one strike against you. I prefer to stay on the FAA's goodside, especially if taking a checkride with them, and wouldn't want to get pushy and shove a II checkride down their throat if they don't like it.

Example: http://forums.jetcareers.com/showpos...0&postcount=16

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

Excuse me, but did you even bother to read my reply?

I did. And if complying with their "preference" fits in with my plans, I would probably go along with the request. But if not, I would politely let them know that I prefer to do what the FAA's rules allow me to do. If that got me on their "bad side," then it would simply show that my comments about people who use power to exceed authority was on target.

[mtsu_av8er]

Right on, Midlife.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by BajtheJino

FSDO CANNOT tell me what order to do my ratings. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS whose salaries are paid by my TAX DOLLARS.
People should not be intimidated by the FAA.


Am I the only one?

I like the way you think. Keep it up.

[MichaelCPS]

I contacted my FSDO (Kansas City) and here is the reply I received:

Michael,

I, too, have seen a few instances when an applicant's first CFI practical was for an instrument instructor. There are no restrictions as to the order in which a CFI acquires their ratings. What is required is that the applicant be prepared and properly endorsed for whatever they are applying for. And, for an initial CFI applicant, the ground and flight instructor would have to be qualified IAW FAR 61.195(h).

Steven B. Davis
Principal Operations Inspector
Kansas City FSDO

[GEEBEER2]

I've sent 6 applicants for the MEI initial in the last year . The FAA has been excellent to work with. The CFISEL and the CFII are usually accomplished in three weeks following.

[Propilot]

I took my CFI-I as my initial CFI rating and failed on CFI-A Material. 2 Hours of the oral were about types of flaps, parts of an engine, etc.


Just be aware that some inspectors are going to want to make sure you know the basic CFI-A Material as well....PTS=whatever the heck they want to ask you, to a FSDO inspector.


This was two years ago, and looking back..I really wasnt ready for my CFI-I......but, he DID spend 1/2 the oral on CFI-A information.....