High performance endorsement on sim

[gredenko]

Out of curiosity, how many of you give high performance endorsements on a sim? IPCs?

[Timbuff10]

I didn't know that was legal so you can put me down for a no.

As for the IPC, I don't know about that either. Maybe half of it in a sim but you want to check skills in a real airplane, not in a computer game. If you sing off their IPC in a sim and they go out the next day in hard IMC and get into a CFIT situation, I would imagine lawyers would be falling all over themselves to talk to you.

I would take them to the plane.

[roundout]

i have performed an IPC in a sim. i prefer this over going out and shooting approaches in rapid succession because it's easier to administer failures and bad wx.

[gredenko]

Timbuff: Well, it is perfectly legal. It's little known, but it's in there.

I agree with you about a FSDO questioning you if something bad happened down the road, but I think answering them (regarding an IPC) with "We did 12 approaches in 2 hours, holding patterns, VOR tracking and I failed every system and he flew fine" would be equal if not stronger than actually going up in a plane and being unable to fail gauges and/or systems, and being limited spacially and with time. When you're in actual, the chips are down, certainly. But I guess I feel if they've already had some hours of actual then the sim and all its possibilities serves an IPC better.

Regarding the high-perf. endorsement...It's pretty much about knowing systems (fuel injection, constant speed props, etc.) and reading the POH of the plane you'll fly than mindlessly buzzing around in a Bonanza that the school rents that the student will never fly again just so the school can make more $$. In that case, I direct the students to the sim where it's cheaper and we can focus more on systems and the increase of speed during approaches, patterns, etc. The sim is perfectly legal to do your high-performance endorsement on.

[Timbuff10]

Interesting... I had no idea that was allowed.

I still would go with the plane. I would want to see more of how they would react in the real world. I do see your argument though but I still feel that I would want to see how they really react when it counts and make a decision on that type of flying instead.

Another problem that I am finding as of late is the sim does not simulate the type of aircraft alot of my students are flying. If they are flying 70s and 80s model planes yes, but with all the new TAA aircraft and glass cockpits on the market, putting students into some sims doesn't make much sense in some situations.

[desertdog71]

The easiest plane I have flown so far was "high performance"

I agree its all about learning and knowing the systems of the aircraft you are flying. The actual flying part should be pretty natural.

[DCApilot2006]

If it's legal, then it's up to the discression of the instructor doing the sign off. I personally wouldn't do it. Sims don't recreate the pull of say a real high performance aircraft. Those of you that have flown a 210 on a wet runway should know all about that right rudder. Now sign your student off and watch him slide off the left side of a runway somewhere and explain your way out of that to the man with the black hat!

[PanJet]

Originally Posted by DCApilot2006

If it's legal, then it's up to the discression of the instructor doing the sign off. I personally wouldn't do it. Sims don't recreate the pull of say a real high performance aircraft. Those of you that have flown a 210 on a wet runway should know all about that right rudder. Now sign your student off and watch him slide off the left side of a runway somewhere and explain your way out of that to the man with the black hat!

Personally I believe the HP endorsement is a little more about handling extra power, and a little about systems, whereas the complex endorsement is more the systems endorsement.

Think of a student who's never flown anything but a Warrior or 152, and then hops into a 182 or bigger. There's a few little things that become more important with all that extra power that wasn't so crucial on the tiny little 152. Have the trim out of whack on takeoff with a 152? Maybe not pleasant, but I haven't seen many people who can't muscle a 152 around without ever trimming it. Try that on a HP aircraft and you're bound to watch the nose fly up on takeoff and then stall it right off the runway. That's the kind of stuff I wouldn't want to be teaching in a sim. You can't feel it.