Question for the CFIs wanting in the airlines

[Maurus]

How do you plan on getting the 100 hours of multi-engine time if you work at a FBO with no multi-engine aircraft?

Just rent one for the 100 hours?

This comes from me seeing that most airlines prefer people with 100+ hours if ME time.

[jrh]

Rent for some time, network and make friends with people who fly twins, and then go fly cargo with less than 100 ME.

[MSNFlyer]

Or take a job at an FBO with a twin, get your MEI and a couple of students--this is obvious a much more difficult task than jrh layed out.

I just passed my MEI yesterday with 41 hrs multi--now I just have to find some students who want to pay $300/hr . . .

[Andrew_VT]

Originally Posted by MSNFlyer

I just passed my MEI yesterday with 41 hrs multi--now I just have to find some students who want to pay $300/hr . . .

You paid for 41 hours of multi...ouch!

To answer your question, I'm a 1200hour CFII with no multi... I handle it by banging my head against a wall...it helps. There are no twins up here, so even if I paid for the 15 hours to get my MEI it wouldnt matter. Plus I dont want to spend that much money, I have it, but the only reason I'm a CFI now with money in the bank is cause I've done everything as cheap as possible and I'm not about to change that.

[meritflyer]

Had all the multi I needed prior to becoming a CFI as I really wasnt planning on doing anything from a professional standpoint. I rented, networked, and really took anything that came my way.

[TaterSalad]

Originally Posted by jrh

Rent for some time, network and make friends with people who fly twins, and then go fly cargo with less than 100 ME.

Agreed. Get your 1200 hrs TT and the other requirements, and go work for Ram Air, Flight Express, etc for a year. You'll get all the multi time you need, and a lot of experience to fall back on later, and get paid for it to boot.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Andrew_VT

You paid for 41 hours of multi...ouch!

To answer your question, I'm a 1200hour CFII with no multi... I handle it by banging my head against a wall...it helps. There are no twins up here, so even if I paid for the 15 hours to get my MEI it wouldnt matter. Plus I dont want to spend that much money, I have it, but the only reason I'm a CFI now with money in the bank is cause I've done everything as cheap as possible and I'm not about to change that.

Because I'm bored, here are two simple comparisons for getting multi time. Paying for 41 hours ain't so bad when you look at it like this: It all depends where you go.

ATP:
Multi add-on course - 10 hours multi - $2795
MEI course - 15 hours multi PIC - $3995

Total: $6790 for two ratings and about 25 ME hours

White Air:
Multi add on course - 6-7 hour multi - $1395
MEI - 15 hours PIC - $2250

Total $3645 for two ratings and about 23 ME hours.

And if you took the rest of that ATP money ($6790-3645=3145) that would get you an additional 20-ish ME hours.

For the same money you can get 2 rating and 25 hours, or 2 ratings and 43 hours.

I have used White Air as an example because they are reputable and are here at JC, but I've researched a few other places that are like them. They do exist!

[jrh]

Originally Posted by ChinookDriver

Because I'm bored, here are two simple comparisons for getting multi time. Paying for 41 hours ain't so bad when you look at it like this: It all depends where you go....

Good example.

I also think of buying time like this:

Let's say you're working as a flight instructor, making $15k/year. You could get a job making $25k/year if you had more multi time. The difference in pay is $10k/year.

You could keep working as a CFI and bum multi time off people through networking. Maybe that'll mean spending one year longer as a CFI.

Or, you could drop $10k into renting a twin and moving on to the $25k/year job ASAP.

Either way, it's costing you the same amount of money, but by buying time, you're moving up in your career a year earlier.

[Andrew_VT]

Chinook and jrh, you two read my mind. I wouldn't ever do an ATP type program, and I'm going to do something like White Air gig when the Apache (130/hr) in Malone NY gets out of the shop 2 months ago The instructor is also the DE I send all my students too, and he said I'll have no prob getting the MEI in 15 hours. I just want MEI on my resume, and its worth about $2500 to me.

JRH, I've been thinking along the "net gain" scenario you mentioned for the past few weeks. I had always said I'd do the Ram Air thing, so no time building program needed. But between pilot####'s discouraging (or discouraging to me at least) posts on Ram Air, and Seggy's intriguing posts on Colgan I'm changing my tune as of late.

One of the main reasons for this change of heart is my social life. I had always said I'd never let a girl influence any career decisions, but if I do the ram thing I could go 6 months without ever seeing my girlfriend (mon-fri job), where with Colgan I can get more than 2 days in a row off and I can jumpseat to whereever she is (probably the virgin islands)

[MSNFlyer]

Agreed. I got my initial multi rating at ATP when I didn't know if I would go into flying as a career or not (140 hours at the time). That took 9 hours and $2,000 (including the checkride). Then, after I was a CFI where I am now I starting renting our Seneca with a friend and split some time (he was an MEI so I actually logged it as dual but still PIC). I got about 10 hours out of that. The last 20 or so were spent getting up to speed for my commercial multi add on and the MEI ride.

So, after 41 hours I probably spent around $8,000. We will see how quickly the next 41 comes giving dual.

I also don't want to fast track to the regionals--I would like to do a little charter where I am and flying their airplane for the last 30 hours doesn't hurt.

[jrh]

Originally Posted by Andrew_VT

One of the main reasons for this change of heart is my social life. I had always said I'd never let a girl influence any career decisions, but if I do the ram thing I could go 6 months without ever seeing my girlfriend (mon-fri job), where with Colgan I can get more than 2 days in a row off and I can jumpseat to whereever she is (probably the virgin islands)

I like your thinking. Good friends and family will keep you happier in the long run than any job.

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by Andrew_VT

You paid for 41 hours of multi...ouch!

To answer your question, I'm a 1200hour CFII with no multi... I handle it by banging my head against a wall...it helps. There are no twins up here, so even if I paid for the 15 hours to get my MEI it wouldnt matter. Plus I dont want to spend that much money, I have it, but the only reason I'm a CFI now with money in the bank is cause I've done everything as cheap as possible and I'm not about to change that.

what else are you supposed to do? who else is going to let you fly a twin with say 25 or less total multi? most insurance requirements require 100 multi to even rent one solo? I ask because i am looking to get my MEI now and i can do it for about 4,000 between several different places, the cost is so high because i don't have any multi PIC time

[Andrew_VT]

well 5 hours is the min for the multi rating, 15 hours is the min for the MEI.

I dont encourage doing things at the minimums but when I'm paying $130+/hr I'm going to do all I can to keep it close to the mins.

I dont see a whole lot more opportunities out there for someone with 40hours vs. 20 (at least instructing opportunities anyway)

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by Andrew_VT

well 5 hours is the min for the multi rating, 15 hours is the min for the MEI.

I dont encourage doing things at the minimums but when I'm paying $130+/hr I'm going to do all I can to keep it close to the mins.

I dont see a whole lot more opportunities out there for someone with 40hours vs. 20 (at least instructing opportunities anyway)

true but where i did my training i needed about 24 hours to finish multi that is average due to the fact you need like 190 or 198 hours to get the comm. cert and it was the last part of that training

and 130/hr is cheap for a multi. i haven't seen any even 300 miles from me for less than 210/hr

[Andrew_VT]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

and 130/hr is cheap for a multi. i haven't seen any even 300 miles from me for less than 210/hr

I'll be sure to post pictures here after I fly it, It will quickly become apparent why! (im not even sure if its IFR!)

2 O-320's running autogas, no fancy radios, original apache paint + int.

[BuickCFI]

also, where do you get he 5 hours minimum required to get a multi add on?

the bare minimum i count out is 10 and that is only if your instructor would let you act as PIC while doing all the training including the instrument. i don't think you could even realistically get it done in 10 just because of the night requirements

Part 61
(b) For an airplane multiengine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:
(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in airplanes.
(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least—
(i) 50 hours in airplanes; and
(ii) 50 hours in cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes.
(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least—
(i) 10 hours of instrument training of which at least 5 hours must be in a multiengine airplane;
(ii) 10 hours of training in a multiengine airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and controllable pitch propellers, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a multiengine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a multiengine seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;
(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a multiengine airplane in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;
(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a multiengine airplane in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(v) 3 hours in a multiengine airplane in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test.
(4) 10 hours of solo flight time in a multiengine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized instructor (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement in paragraph (b)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least—
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and
(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight with a traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

Part 141
(b) For an airplane multiengine course: 10 hours of flight training in a multiengine airplane performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a certificated flight instructor. The training must consist of the approved areas of operation in paragraph (d)(2) of section No. 4 of this appendix, and include at least—
(1) One cross-country flight, if the training is being performed in the State of Hawaii, with landings at a minimum of three points, and one of the segments consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles;
(2) One cross-country flight, if the training is being performed in a State other than Hawaii, with landings at a minimum of three points and one segment of the flight consisting of straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles; and
(3) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight with a traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

[Andrew_VT]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

also, where do you get he 5 hours minimum required to get a multi add on?

hmm...good question

[dc3flyer]

The minis stated in the above post are if you are getting your initial commercial in a twin, not adding on.

As for building multi time, you mean to tell me that you are hanging around an airport for 12-20 hours a day as a CFI and there are no (ZERO) multi engine aircraft based at that airport? Get out of the office and talk to people. Ask people to ride along in their twins a couple of times and then ask if you can fly it (with them of course). If you take another pilot flying, you can still log PIC.

The only problem with that scenerio is currency. If you got your ME rating a while back, you will need to somehow get 3 TO/LNDGS to be able to carry passengers (the owner who just happens to also be a pilot). Chances are he may be a MEI, if not maybe he knows someone (he trusts a little more than he does you right now with his plane) that you can pay $20 to ride around the patch with you 3 times. Cheap multi-time. After a while he may even let you pay for fuel to use it on occasion after you have been with him a few times.

It is possible, I convinced a guy to let me use his plane to get my MEI. After I had flown with him so long, I only needed 3 hours of dual, and a checkride... only had to pay for gas and an examiner.

[subpilot]

If you want to build cheap multi time quickly then find someone else in your same shoes and go rent a cheap multi together. I found one for $140/hr and so that came out to only $70/hr each. That works out to only $3500 for 50 hours. Bonus is if you find fuel that is cheaper than the reimbursement rate, then you could pocket the difference if the owners allow it.

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by dc3flyer

The minis stated in the above post are if you are getting your initial commercial in a twin, not adding on.

As for building multi time, you mean to tell me that you are hanging around an airport for 12-20 hours a day as a CFI and there are no (ZERO) multi engine aircraft based at that airport? Get out of the office and talk to people. Ask people to ride along in their twins a couple of times and then ask if you can fly it (with them of course). If you take another pilot flying, you can still log PIC.

The only problem with that scenerio is currency. If you got your ME rating a while back, you will need to somehow get 3 TO/LNDGS to be able to carry passengers (the owner who just happens to also be a pilot). Chances are he may be a MEI, if not maybe he knows someone (he trusts a little more than he does you right now with his plane) that you can pay $20 to ride around the patch with you 3 times. Cheap multi-time. After a while he may even let you pay for fuel to use it on occasion after you have been with him a few times.

It is possible, I convinced a guy to let me use his plane to get my MEI. After I had flown with him so long, I only needed 3 hours of dual, and a checkride... only had to pay for gas and an examiner.

at my current airport the only twins i know of are UND's (so no way i could log that time) and 2 Senecas the company i work for owns(can't log that time either because they are only operated Part 135). just about everything hangered at the airport is a single (lots of mooneys)

[dc3flyer]

Are there any airports close by? Someone around there has to know somebody that could hook you up!