Professional courtesy?!

[clumpinglitter]

It's happened a couple of times now where a fellow CFI was interested in some training from me, and when they found out I was going to charge for dual, they dropped me for someone else who would do it for free. Is this common? Am I out of line to expect to be paid for flight training? I would charge these people a superbly cheap rate, because I'm a brand new CFI. But I feel it's degrading to me to provide free dual.

I'm not impressed by such behavior, but I also don't approve of the CFIs who are giving dual instruction for free. It's like people are so competitive for students and hours that they don't care that they're hurting all CFIs in general. No wonder we get paid crap, with yahoos willing to do it for free. Wake up, people.

End of rant.

-C.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by clumpinglitter

No wonder we get paid crap

$10 per flight hour is crap?? What planet are you from?

[taildragger173]

I come from the school of thought that CFIs do professional favors for each other. Things like a Flight Review, an IPC, maybe a tailwheel endorsement I wont charge for if it wont interfear with my my schedule and my other students. If they want to add a new rating and become a full time project for me I do expect compensation. Favors though I usually wont charge for. Those people, in return, wont charge me. One other thing...I have to know the person. If its a complete stranger I'm a lot less willing to do a favor.

[wheelsup]

I've worked at a few schools. One, CFI's would do favors like the above. CFI for free. Another, the school would pay the CFI to go up with the "student" instructor either to do currency flights, checkouts, or MEI work.

[meritflyer]

There was a guy here in PHX a few years ago that bought a used 172 and gave instruction in it for a flat rate which was CHEAP!! Something like $65/hr which included him, the plane, and fuel - built 1000 hours and sold it.

[ajf005]

I got my CFII for free pretty much, the school gives us 3 hours a month for instrument currency and all the instructor wanted was a case of Bud. I think helping out fellow instructors is a good thing because were all poor and when you need a favor its nice to not get charged.

[Timbuff10]

CFI to CFI, I agree no need to charge. We can all benefit from critique every now and then. I wouldn't make it a habit of doing that though. I think if you are just a CFI and looking to be a II or a MEI, you should offer up something for the instruction. Dinner, Beer, some cash, something.

The more experience you get, the better, and who knows, maybe when you are teaching that CFI and not charging them for it, you learn something from them that you wouldn't have learned had the flight never have happened.

There are limits to this though.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by clumpinglitter

nd when they found out I was going to charge for dual, they dropped me

I'd charge for a rating, though not for things like checkouts and flight reviews, because I may need the return favor.

I prefer not to do -II or MEI's for people, because instructors tend to want as little training as possible for the lowest possible cost. I don't find that sort of training rewarding. If they're put off by my charging, then that serves to weed out the riffraff. Everyone tends to get the sort of instructor they deserve.

[Derek_S]

At the flight school I instruct at we typicly don't charge already CFI's as long as they work for the same school.

When I first started instructing at the school I work for now, a CFI whom I was already acquainted with wanted to get his high performance endorsment in the C-182. So we went up once for a couple hours without me charging him at all and I got a free lunch out of it though, woohoo! Even better though, a couple months down the road he helped me get my MEI license, all he asked for was lunch, then we called it even.

So doing favors for other CFI's at the same school might pay off later down the road when you need a favor.

[FrankiegPilot]

Well as you can see, it looks like everyone agrees on not to charge an other fellow CFI... To me it would be a professional courtesy to not charge or get charged for a check out or what have you. I guess it all depends on how much you really enjoy flying and your desire to teach and expand aviation. I say if your just in it for the money, then charge, but if its more of a honor to help out a fellow CFI just like your self, then you'll know at that point rather you should charge or not...

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

$10 per flight hour is crap?? What planet are you from?

$10/flight hour IS indeed crap.

I was paid that back in 1994 for giving primary flight instruction.

[averyrm]

If a friend of mine needed some dual (not for a rating) I wouldn't charge, but anyone else I would.

[clumpinglitter]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

I'd charge for a rating, though not for things like checkouts and flight reviews, because I may need the return favor.

I prefer not to do -II or MEI's for people, because instructors tend to want as little training as possible for the lowest possible cost. I don't find that sort of training rewarding. If they're put off by my charging, then that serves to weed out the riffraff. Everyone tends to get the sort of instructor they deserve.

This is my situation... I should have been more clear. Checkouts and reviews, who cares. But a rating? I wouldn't dream of not paying someone for that sort of work, whether we were friends or not.

-C.

[jrh]

Originally Posted by clumpinglitter

Checkouts and reviews, who cares. But a rating? I wouldn't dream of not paying someone for that sort of work, whether we were friends or not.

I agree.

[Ian J]

It's kind of an unwritten rule that CFIs don't charge each other at my school. Or that's what I thought... I flew another CFI for the WINGs program and he insisted on paying me. I thought that was a pretty cool thing to do, but really unnecessary. When I got my double I, I tried to pay my chief pilot who did the instruction, but he refused.

For me personally... I'll always try and pay for another CFI's services. If they refuse, so be it.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by clumpinglitter

This is my situation... I should have been more clear. Checkouts and reviews, who cares. But a rating? I wouldn't dream of not paying someone for that sort of work, whether we were friends or not.
-C.

Agreed. I was already a CFI when I did my multi. It never occurred to me to ask anyone to train me for free. The cost of the flight instructor pales beside the cost of the airplane. When I did my -II, the same.

My observation is that those who get free instruction get poor instruction.

[Van_Hoolio]

At my school it's cash under the table for CFI to CFI instruction. I got one of the assistant cheif instructors their MEI and he paid me $25 per hour, pretty much flight only. It's necessary to get paid from a loss of revenue standpoint. I wasn't making any money from revenue students during the time I was flying with him, so I wanted to get paid.

Mike

[SGTCIV]

I would never charge a fellow CFI for instruction. I would consider it an honor, and would accept no more than a case of domestic beer for compensation... Maybe Corona or XX, but they're connected anyway.

[Andrew_VT]

Originally Posted by SGTCIV

I would never charge a fellow CFI for instruction. I would consider it an honor, and would accept no more than a case of domestic beer for compensation... Maybe Corona or XX, but they're connected anyway.

Exactly, and if they wanted a whole rating and I didn't like them, I wouldnt do it even for $$, so that fixes that.

[MSNFlyer]

I got my Multi Comm add on and MEI for lunch and dinner from our chief pilot.

At my school we don't charge each other--I am working with my friend on his II and haven't charged him. We get a small training account per month to stay current and just utilize it with each other. I would say I have only given about 20-30 of free dual to my co-workers in the past year though so it is no big deal and has never caused a conflict with a paying student.

[dbakeg00]

The general rule..."never fly for free". I think one exception is CFI to CFI training...it is a common courtesy. All of us are broke, malnourished, and can barely make rent. So when someone needs training for a CFII or a high performance, do it as a favor. Pay it forward man!

[newty]

When I was instructing and had another CFI ask for training for a rating My response was always this. "I'll do it but I will charge you under the table. Here is a list of CFI's that really need the time and they will not charge you, I will not feel bad if you choose to go with one of them, as they need the time more than I do and they are free." I only lost one "Student" this way.

[SkyKing]

At the school I work for, CFI's don't charge each other. I got my CFII, CMEL and MEI for the cost of the AC and a few cases of beer.

I will gladly do the same for any other CFI that works for us.

[CFIse]

For everybody who is "at a school" and not charging fellow CFIs for training you might want to check on this.

You may not be covered by the schools insurance when providing "free" services.

Now with many schools you may not be covered anyway, and perhaps you carry your own insurance in which case all well and good. But if, Lord forbid, something should happen, afterwards is not a good time to be wondering who's going to be paying for this mess.

[moxiepilot]

It seems like a lot of posters are of the mind set to not charge another CFI for services rendered, so I offer up a scenerio:

Student goes to flight school (let's say ATP, Embry, or Daniel Webster.) Student pays school to acquire CFI, CFII, MEI. Instructor is paid for that training.

Why then should you not charge for your services?

When a lawyer calls another lawyer regarding a case they are working on, they will charge the customer - and that is because the lawyer being called expects to be PAID for SERVICES RENDERED, even though they may have been law school roommates.

I appreciate all of the paying it forward attitude and comaraderie among fellow CFI's, but not not necessarily agree with the majority of above posts.

I do agree with currency or checkouts because that is relativily insignificant. But, for a rating do NOT agree that free is good. Your services to another instructor are no different than to a student. Do you teach students for free? I hope not.

It took me a year to recognize that if my time was booked by a student they would pay me for ALL of it. Not .3 pre/post - all of it. Why? Because my time is valuable and worth something.

A fellow instructor should recognize this as such - our time and knowledge is valuable and when supplying time or knowledge to a peer we as PROFESSIONALS should expect to be compensated.

Originally Posted by clumpinglitter

It's happened a couple of times now where a fellow CFI was interested in some training from me, and when they found out I was going to charge for dual, they dropped me for someone else who would do it for free. Is this common? Am I out of line to expect to be paid for flight training? I would charge these people a superbly cheap rate, because I'm a brand new CFI. But I feel it's degrading to me to provide free dual.

I'm not impressed by such behavior, but I also don't approve of the CFIs who are giving dual instruction for free. It's like people are so competitive for students and hours that they don't care that they're hurting all CFIs in general. No wonder we get paid crap, with yahoos willing to do it for free. Wake up, people.

End of rant.

-C.