Night Currency in Single Good for Multi?

[Van_Hoolio]

Does being night current in a light single make you current for flying a light twin at night with passengers or students? Basically, if you are out of night currency and get current again in a Cessna 172, does that make you current to take passengers in a Seminole/Duchess/Baron, etc.?

§ 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.
(b) Night takeoff and landing experience.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—
(i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).
(2) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (b)(1) of this section may be accomplished in a flight simulator that is—
(i) Approved by the Administrator for takeoffs and landings, if the visual system is adjusted to represent the period described in paragraph (b)(1) of this section; and
(ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.

§ 1.1 General definitions.

Category:
(1) As used with respect to the certification, ratings, privileges, and limitations of airmen, means a broad classification of aircraft. Examples include: airplane; rotorcraft; glider; and lighter-than-air; and
(2) As used with respect to the certification of aircraft, means a grouping of aircraft based upon intended use or operating limitations. Examples include: transport, normal, utility, acrobatic, limited, restricted, and provisional.

Class:
(1) As used with respect to the certification, ratings, privileges, and limitations of airmen, means a classification of aircraft within a category having similar operating characteristics. Examples include: single engine; multiengine; land; water; gyroplane; helicopter; airship; and free balloon; and
(2) As used with respect to the certification of aircraft, means a broad grouping of aircraft having similar characteristics of propulsion, flight, or landing. Examples include: airplane; rotorcraft; glider; balloon; landplane; and seaplane.

Type:
(1) As used with respect to the certification, ratings, privileges, and limitations of airmen, means a specific make and basic model of aircraft, including modifications thereto that do not change its handling or flight characteristics. Examples include: DC–7, 1049, and F–27; and
(2) As used with respect to the certification of aircraft, means those aircraft which are similar in design. Examples include: DC–7 and DC–7C; 1049G and 1049H; and F–27 and F–27F.
(3) As used with respect to the certification of aircraft engines means those engines which are similar in design. For example, JT8D and JT8D–7 are engines of the same type, and JT9D–3A and JT9D–7 are engines of the same type.

Mike

[vabantha]

I believe they are actually referring to category, class, and type rating for airmen. It does say "type, if type rating required." Well, the aircraft doesn't need a type rating, the airman does. At least that's the way I interpret it.

Originally Posted by Van_Hoolio

Does being night current in a light single make you current for flying a light twin at night with passengers or students? Basically, if you are out of night currency and get current again in a Cessna 172, does that make you current to take passengers in a Seminole/Duchess/Baron, etc.?






Mike

[jrh]

Originally Posted by Van_Hoolio

Basically, if you are out of night currency and get current again in a Cessna 172, does that make you current to take passengers in a Seminole/Duchess/Baron, etc.?

No.

The reg says the takeoffs and landings only apply to that category and class.

The category is the same ("airplane") but the classes are different ("single engine land" vs. "multi engine land").

[desertdog71]

Originally Posted by jrh

No.

The reg says the takeoffs and landings only apply to that category and class.

The category is the same ("airplane") but the classes are different ("single engine land" vs. "multi engine land").

[jrh]

Oh....wait...I'm confused.

I just re-read what you highlighted.

The night landings reg says *aircraft* of the same category and class. And the reg that talks about certification of aircraft says things like "normal" and "airplane" for category and class, respectively.

So really, your question is, does the night landing reg relate to the certification of aircraft, or the certification of airmen.

Could the night landings be done in a "normal category airplane" and count for all normal category airplanes (single or multi engine)?

I don't know. I was always taught that currency was seperate for singles and seperate for twins...but maybe I was taught wrong. I'd never questioned it until now.

I'll be interested to hear Midlife's answer.

[falconvalley]

That's a really good question. The definitions refer to airman limitations to help you tell the difference. The fact that 61.57 refers to "aircraft of the same..." does not mean that the reg is refering to the aircraft part of the definition. That's why the airman's portion of the definition of class refers to "limitations".

[meritflyer]

Nope. There is a difference between currency between ME and SE airplanes. As already pointed out, category = airplane, class = ME or SE.

[jrh]

Originally Posted by falconvalley

That's a really good question. The definitions refer to airman limitations to help you tell the difference. The fact that 61.57 refers to "aircraft of the same..." does not mean that the reg is refering to the aircraft part of the definition. That's why the airman's portion of the definition of class refers to "limitations".

Good explanation. I guess my first answer, and what I've been taught, is correct.

14 CFR 1.1 says that the word "class" can be "used with respect to the...limitations of airmen." This is a case where the word "class" in 61.57 is referring to a limitation on airmen (who can and can't fly at night), therefore the whole idea of categories and classes in that reg should be viewed with respect to the certification of airmen.

[MSNFlyer]

You are correct there. Think of it this way, it is the pilot who needs to keep this currency, not the aircraft, so the category and class apply to airmen.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by jrh

I'll be interested to hear Midlife's answer.

Why? There have been plenty of good explanations here. One applies to how aircraft are certified and maintained. The other refers to how pilots are certified and maintained. Thinking that it says something different than that takes a good amount of over-reading.

[ananoman]

Originally Posted by vabantha

I believe they are actually referring to category, class, and type rating for airmen. It does say "type, if type rating required." Well, the aircraft doesn't need a type rating, the airman does. At least that's the way I interpret it.

Landing currency is type specific as well. If you are PIC of an airplane that requires a type rating, then you must have 3 landings in 90 days in that specific model of airplane. There are some work arounds for night currency if you fly more than one typed aircraft, but they don't apply to light planes.

I for one always thought that they should allow you to fly singles if you were multi current. It always sucked to have to rent a Cherokee to get night current, since I was flying a Seminole all the time. To me, if you can land a light twin, a single should not be too big of a deal.

[nosehair]

Originally Posted by ananoman

I for one always thought that they should allow you to fly singles if you were multi current.

Ahh, I love this one. The ego of the multi-engine pilot. Once they get that SuperMan Multi Rating, they think singles are mere child's play.

OK, not picking on you specifically, ananoman, I don't know your personal proficiency, and you may very well be very proficient in singles, which may be the source of your logic.

However, I have encountered enough pilots who have been flying multi's, and especially BIG multi's, who can't even hit the runway.

Single-engine P-Factor causes many to almost lose directional control on take off, and they have lost the rudder and elevator control touch that a single requires over a multi.

The biggest reason is the power off forced landing. Some of these multi guys haven't had hold of an airpane in gliding form in so long, they are dangerous.

These are some of the reasons why you have to have a single-engine add-on if you get your multi first, and it contionous to be the reason why you need to stay current in both categories.

Again, not you, but some people really need the currency.

[ananoman]

I don't totally disagree with you, as I would not feel comfortable in a single now, after not flying one for several years. But when I was an instructor, I was often not single engine current. There really was not a lot of difference between the Seminole and the Cadet or Arrow. It kind of sucked to have to rent the plane to do 3 landings.

To me there is not much difference between a light twin and a single. Once you move up to bigger aircraft, it starts to matter more. I'm sure I would probably be one of those dummies who flares 10' off the runway if I went to fly a single now though.