Help with radios?

[USMCmech]

Do any of you guys have any sugestions how to help a student who is having trouble with Comms.

He isn't the strongest student, but he can fly just fine, as long as nothing esle is going on. He is an Air Force Navigator student who is doing his initial flight training, and has 24 hours. I have already soloed him in the pattern, because everything else was OK, not great, but OK.

Basicly he can't multi task, esspecially in any unfamilaer situation. He is constantly missing radio calls, and asking me what he should say. Yesterday we did a X-cty and it was terrible, everyt ime he tried to do something inside the cockpit he lost heading and/or altitude, ATC had to repeat a call 4 times. One controller noticed we were 60 deg off course (so did I) and called him on it. Even with my GPS in front of him he still couldn't hold a course.

If I could load this guy in a simple Piper Cub and never let him fly in controlled airspace he would be fine, but that isn't reality.

[t82]

Does he have anyone else he can backseat with? Maybe he just needs to see it all without having to do it.

[carlos]

You might try isolating his tasks so he can concentrate on one at a time, before trying to put it all together. For example, you could handle the controls while he makes all the radio calls in the pattern or on some short cross-countries. I think this would have really helped me when I was a student.

As for losing heading and altitude while doing things in the cockpit, it might be because he has too tight a grip on the controls, and moves them as he shifts his focus and concentration elsewhere. Have him fly with a loose grip or no grip (really just flying with pressures on the yoke). Or if this doesn't work, have him take his hands completely off the controls when doing something in the cockpit. If the airplane is trimmed properly, this will prevent any inadvertent control movements. Of course, if he's in the middle of a turn, that's not going to work too well.

[meritflyer]

Dry fly.. Dry fly.. Dry fly.

I always have my students with radio trouble sit in the airplane with me while pretending to fly - using their checklist and verbalizing to me what they're doing. I'll start with a taxi clearance and plat ATC from there.

It usually helps get the lingo down.

[JEP]

It may seem simple, but have him listen to LiveAtc.net when he has any idle time. I used to always listen and it helped me tremendously. You get used to what they are saying and will get an idea of when and what to expect on your next call.

[Bandit_Driver]

I would have him chair fly a few time with you acting as ATC
Have him ride along with some of your other students and have him just do the radios (if a/c is properly equipped)
Distractions get the newbies everytime. Like someone said earlier he is holding on too tight to the controls and moving them when looking for items. Also, his scan is too slow. He is forgetting about flying the plane while performing other tasks.

Good Luck, I am sure he will get better with experience.

[Low_Level_Hell]

I break all radio transmissions this way:

1. Who I am.
2. Where I am.
and
3. What I want to do.

Does it apply to every situation out there? No. But stick to this you'll at least able to make your way around the skies with out confusing everyone out there and yourself.

[PanJet]

Originally Posted by JEP

It may seem simple, but have him listen to LiveAtc.net when he has any idle time. I used to always listen and it helped me tremendously. You get used to what they are saying and will get an idea of when and what to expect on your next call.

It's a good idea, but I'd be careful. LiveATC can get a little cluttered sometime just confusing the uninformed student even more.

The best thing that worked for me was actually Microsoft Flight Simulator (2002 or newer). I learned a lot that way.

Also, one of my students actually writes down different transmissions for different segments of flight. It works fairly well.

As far as multitasking, I had to push a student on emergency procedures. He would focus too much on one thing and forget the other five things he needed to focus on. I just pushed him more and more and wouldn't let him focus on one thing. In the end, he turned out great on emergency procedures. Of course, this would serve to frustrate some students, but if you use judgement, it may be worth a try.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by USMCmech

He is an Air Force Navigator student .

There's the gist of your problem..........








I kid, I kid....

[texaviator23]

When I was learning I made a photo copy of all the things that needed to be said at different phases of flight from taxi to landing all of my calls where scripted on my knee board. My instructor had me to fly the airplane and he handled the radio while I listened then we would switch....

[themctm]

Of course he might be one that doesn't need to be a pilot. Surely we've all come across the student that it's obvious shouldn't be behind the yoke. Sometimes it's more dangerous for all involved.

[SpiraMirabilis]

The book: Say Again, Please.
It is really a great book. You can get it from the library.

[SpiraMirabilis]

Originally Posted by themctm

Of course he might be one that doesn't need to be a pilot. Surely we've all come across the student that it's obvious shouldn't be behind the yoke. Sometimes it's more dangerous for all involved.

I get annoyed when I hear this, as most of the time it reflects on the teaching ability of the CFI who's saying their student just 'isn't cut out'. I am not saying that there are not those types of people (who are incorrigably dangerous in the air) but I believe they are very rare.

[themctm]

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

I get annoyed when I hear this, as most of the time it reflects on the teaching ability of the CFI who's saying their student just 'isn't cut out'. I am not saying that there are not those types of people (who are incorrigably dangerous in the air) but I believe they are very rare.

Hey, I'm not saying that all my students dropped out (100% pass rate by the way) but if a guy cant walk, chew gum and remember to breathe he has a problem.

[MSNFlyer]

I used to start my students out on the radios much sooner, now I do the radios until they can fly the airplane and do something else (like pilotage or tune VORs). However, on the second or third lesson I give them a cheat sheet with everything I am going to say--at least to get clearance, taxi and takeoff--with blanks for what ATC will give me.

Then I teach them the five things for almost every communication:

1. Who we are calling
2. Who we are
3. Where we are
4. What we know (ATIS)
5. What we want

You can also relate this back to something they do all the time--like order a pizza. Then I fine tune their comms--for example at a party if you meet Bob and start a conversation with him you don't have to say "Bob" at the beginning of every sentence, just when you start the conversation with him. So, only say Who you are calling at the beginning or when you need to get their attention. All other communications are pretty much reading back what you hear with your tail number at the end (or some people like to say it at the beginning). And finally, have them write things down so they remember and understand each transmission and can then start to anticipate what they will be hearing. At my airport for a training flight in our practice area I only have to remember the last two digits of our transponder code, everything else I know what I will be hearing.

Good luck, don't give up and happy pizza ordering!

[launchpad]

with 24 hours, he should know what ATC communications sound like. Tell him to nerd out, put on his best pilot voice, and talk to himself when he's in the shower/on the can/stuck in traffic/ignoring his wife, etc. etc.

as for the multi tasking, tell him to let go of the yoke when he's doing something inside....also try to teach him simple ways of making calculations. Maybe what he's learned is too involved for his brain, and it ends up being too much of a distraction....rules of thumb work great.

It sounds like this guy just needs more practice in a higher workload environment.........just don't make it too high workload or he might get discouraged.....baby steps...baby steps....