lifting the hood...

[killbilly]

When a student is landing under the hood, at what altitude or distance are they allowed to lift it to look at the runway? Was thinking about the PF/NPF duties that some schools use and was curious.

[N422NM]

As long as the safety pilot and PIC is competent and both pilots are comfortable, take it to the published minimums for the approach.

[Timbuff10]

Take it down to mins, flip the hood back to the rear seats. PF logs the hobbs, NFP logs the tach assuming they are the SP and not a II.

Anyone ever been so focused on the approach that when you try and lose the hood it ends up getting caught in your headset and strangles you on final?

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by N422NM

As long as the safety pilot and PIC is competent and both pilots are comfortable, take it to the published minimums for the approach.

Is it commonplace to teach an IFR student to published minimums every time they land under the hood? Or are you telling me it's possible, but not conventional?

[desertdog71]

Originally Posted by killbilly

Is it commonplace to teach an IFR student to published minimums every time they land under the hood? Or are you telling me it's possible, but not conventional?

I went to mins every time, but I don't know it that is common or not.

[N422NM]

Seemed to be the norm with the places I trained and with others I've flown with, and it's the way I teach it as well.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by killbilly

Is it commonplace to teach an IFR student to published minimums every time they land under the hood? Or are you telling me it's possible, but not conventional?

I've never heard of it done any other way.

What would be the point of doing it earlier?

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

Take it down to mins, flip the hood back to the rear seats. PF logs the hobbs, NFP logs the tach assuming they are the SP and not a II.

Anyone ever been so focused on the approach that when you try and lose the hood it ends up getting caught in your headset and strangles you on final?

We always took it down to mins and the CFII would either say, "Contact" or "No Contact". Contact - flip the hood and check. No Contact and we were going missed.

Never had the problem with the hood. Always used the Jepp Shades. Flip up, Flip down very easy and never had to change controls.

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

I've never heard of it done any other way.

What would be the point of doing it earlier?

Because I didn't know if it was broken into smaller tasks, for example, as part of easing the student into it. Like I said, I've never done it and was wondering.

Thanks, all, for the answers.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by killbilly

Because I didn't know if it was broken into smaller tasks, for example, as part of easing the student into it. Like I said, I've never done it and was wondering.

Thanks, all, for the answers.

Its always a good idea in the training environment to fly to the published minimums. A lot of attention to detail comes into play with instrument approaches. The IFR pilot has to be continually monitoring their altitude and position during the approach so that they do not violate the published altitudes - doing so could mean serious danger.

By flying to the minimums, it keeps the IFR pilot ahead of the game and the airplane. I teach my students to start thinking about the missed approach procedure before they even arrive at the mins. That way there is no confusion as to what is to be accomplished upon arrival at MDA or DH when a landing can not be made.

I believe it is stated in numerous publications that, when a normal person is presented with a high stress situation or emergency, that they will react rapidly and exactly within the limits of their training. If during training, approaches were not flown to mins, and the pilot encounters a real life situation requiring flying to the mins and possibly going missed, then the person is going to be reacting outside of what they have been trained. I think that makes better sense. I'm just waiting for the weather to clear so I can fly!

[fish314]

If I lift the hood I'll do it just prior to the decision height or the VDP on a non-precision, so that my student sees the runway at the same time that he would see it were he to break out of the weather at minimums. This is because of the type of hoods we use, you can't just flip them off the guys head, they go around the helmet, so he has to take them off.

Sometimes, though, I won't even lift the hood. I brief the guy, "if you get to the DH or the MAP and the hood is still on, then you're still in simulated weather, and you should execute the missed, but if it's off and you can safely land, then land." This way he never knows if he's going to get to land or if he'll have to execute climbout.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by killbilly

Because I didn't know if it was broken into smaller tasks, for example, as part of easing the student into it. Like I said, I've never done it and was wondering.

Good point. We do break things into smaller tasks for teaching purposes. But in this case, the task all the way to minimums is the same as the task to a higher altitude. Maintain a (relatively) constant course at a constant airspeed and (in the case of an ILS) a constant rate of descent. All bringing up the hood early does is let you spend less time doing the same task or group of tasks.

The breakdown of approaches into smaller tasks typically takes place before you ever fly a charted approach. Work on instrument attitude flying, tracking radials and bearings, constant airspeed and constant rate climbs and descents, etc are the "smaller tasks" that, when ultimately put together with reading charts, lead to flying an approach.

[jrh]

Originally Posted by fish314

Sometimes, though, I won't even lift the hood. I brief the guy, "if you get to the DH or the MAP and the hood is still on, then you're still in simulated weather, and you should execute the missed, but if it's off and you can safely land, then land." This way he never knows if he's going to get to land or if he'll have to execute climbout.

I like this method.

On my CFII checkride, the examiner had me demonstrate an ILS approach. He said, "I'll tell you when you break out of the clouds." I reached minimums and didn't hear the DE say anything, so I started the missed approach. I thought it was a good trick...he was making sure it was instinctive for me to go missed if I didn't see anything. I use this method now on my students occasionally.