Instructing without Endorsements

[PanJet]

I just got done going through 14 CFR Part 61.195 about Flight Instructor limitations and qualifications, and no where in that part could I find anything saying that a CFI had to have endorsements such as high performance or complex to teach in those types of aircraft. The only limitations were category, class, and type rating. Does this mean an instructor without a high performance endorsement, for example, could instruct in a high performance aircraft, or is there something somewhere else that I'm missing?

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by PanJet

I just got done going through 14 CFR Part 61.195 about Flight Instructor limitations and qualifications, and no where in that part could I find anything saying that a CFI had to have endorsements such as high performance or complex to teach in those types of aircraft. The only limitations were category, class, and type rating. Does this mean an instructor without a high performance endorsement, for example, could instruct in a high performance aircraft, or is there something somewhere else that I'm missing?

Keep in mind, someone on the aircraft has to be ACTING PIC. If I have a ASEL CFI and you have a PPL ASEL and want instruction in a Bonanza, one of us needs to have a high performance endorsement. If you have it, cool and the gang, if I have it, even cooler and the gang. I find it unlikely though, that an instructor would be giving instruction in something they have no experience or check out it.

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

I find it unlikely though, that an instructor would be giving instruction in something they have no experience or check out it.

It happens quite often actually, because thre are all kinds of airplanes out there, and most CFIs only have experience in some of the more common types. When the owners of the more exotic airplanes get BFRs, the CFI will probably not have experience in that airplane.

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by flyguy

It happens quite often actually, because thre are all kinds of airplanes out there, and most CFIs only have experience in some of the more common types. When the owners of the more exotic airplanes get BFRs, the CFI will probably not have experience in that airplane.

I was gonna say something about BFRs, that is a little different than what the original topic was. A BFR, technically isn't instruction, more like a mini checkride. But yes you are 100% correct.

[PanJet]

Well, okay, I see what you guys are saying about PIC, and that part makes perfect sense, but here's a hypothetical situation, but very probable: A student would like me to possibly instruct him for his commercial license when he finishes his IR (assuming I have my CFI by then). He is doing most of the instruction in 200 HP Arrow's, so no problem there, but he owns his own 182. For some of the stuff like say, dual XC's, he would rather take a trip home or something in his 182 rather than rent the Arrow, but I don't have a high performance endorsement. Could I give him dual in that case?

Another instance I saw recently was a lady wanted one of our instructors to give her an IPC in her own 170, but he didn't have a tailwheel endorsment, so he went out and got one before he gave the IPC. Did he have to get the tailwheel endorsement before giving the IPC? Are there any other kinds of instruction besides maybe a BFR or IPC that he could give in the plane without a tailwheel endorsement assuming his "student" already was a qualified pilot with a tailwheel endorsement?

[Dugie8]

I might not be following you completely, but lemme break it down like this. If the student is rated in category and class and has appropriate endorsements, ie tailwhell or high performance, you can give them instruction since you are not acting as PIC.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by PanJet

Well, okay, I see what you guys are saying about PIC, and that part makes perfect sense, but here's a hypothetical situation, but very probable: A student would like me to possibly instruct him for his commercial license when he finishes his IR (assuming I have my CFI by then). He is doing most of the instruction in 200 HP Arrow's, so no problem there, but he owns his own 182. For some of the stuff like say, dual XC's, he would rather take a trip home or something in his 182 rather than rent the Arrow, but I don't have a high performance endorsement. Could I give him dual in that case?

So long as the student is qualified and willing to act as PIC for the flight, it's legal.

Here's a question you might want to ask yourself, though:

Something happens on the flight. Some kind of accident. The FAA and NTSB investigates. You are asked the question, "Explain why you felt you were qualified to teach someone in an airplane that you are not qualified to fly yourself."

If you feel comfortable with your answer, go ahead.

Being the PIC means ultimately responsible for the safety of flight. But that does not mean that not being PIC automatically divests you of any responsibility for what goes on.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

I was gonna say something about BFRs, that is a little different than what the original topic was. A BFR, technically isn't instruction, more like a mini checkride. But yes you are 100% correct.

Actually, a FR technically =is= instruction. Read the reg. "a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of...?"

[PanJet]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

Being the PIC means ultimately responsible for the safety of flight. But that does not mean that not being PIC automatically divests you of any responsibility for what goes on.

I completely agree. Basically I was asking because I was under the impression that a CFI had to have the endorsement to instruct in that type of aircraft, and I was a little surprised when I found out that it wasn't that way.

[jrh]

Originally Posted by PanJet

I completely agree. Basically I was asking because I was under the impression that a CFI had to have the endorsement to instruct in that type of aircraft, and I was a little surprised when I found out that it wasn't that way.

Yeah, I'm with Midlife on this one...legal, but I wouldn't be 100% comfortable 100% of the time.

Also, just a side note for your specific situation, I'd suggest you go get a high performance endorsement. They're easy and cheap to get, at least compared to complex and tailwheel endorsements. I think I spent 3 hours and about $350 getting my HP signoff in a 182. Through instructing and safety pilot time, I've been able to get at least 20 or 30 hours in my logbook that I wouldn't have been able to get without the endorsement.

As for freelancing with your friend who owns the 182...sounds like a good deal. Just be careful not to tick off your employer (I'm assuming you'll be employed as a CFI for the FBO that rents the Arrows). If you start freelancing with a student who used to rent where you work as a CFI, it might look like you're stealing business. I think there is a thread somewhere in the JC archives about similar situations.

For me, working for a college, I have some unique freelancing restrictions. The college doesn't care if I freelance in my spare time, but I can't freelance with college students (it specifically says this in my employment agreement). It's a policy designed to protect the school from a student who buys their own aircraft for the purpose of training, then doesn't use the school's planes as much. I can fly all I want with Joe Blow who wants to fly for fun at the airport across town, but I can't do anything freelance with an aviation major from my college.