Instrument Rating Questions

[SpaceShipOne]

Hi,

I am trying to instruct someone towards his instrument rating. This individual already holds a private pilot fixed wing and commercial helicopter instrument. My question is, does his person need to meet all the aeronautical experience described in part 61.65 for his private pilot fixed wing instrument rating? I'm not sure if he meets the 50 hr x-country PIC requirement as all his training was done in the military and I am not sure how that time was logged. I have read through part 61.63 also but I am still unsure. Can anyone here tell me for sure what requirements have to be met?

Thanks

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by SpaceShipOne

Hi,

I am trying to instruct someone towards his instrument rating. This individual already holds a private pilot fixed wing and commercial helicopter instrument. My question is, does his person need to meet all the aeronautical experience described in part 61.65 for his private pilot fixed wing instrument rating? I'm not sure if he meets the 50 hr x-country PIC requirement as all his training was done in the military and I am not sure how that time was logged. I have read through part 61.63 also but I am still unsure. Can anyone here tell me for sure what requirements have to be met?

Thanks

Barring the ability to convert the military equivilant to the civilian instrument rating, which I know nothing about, yes, he would have to meet the listed requirements.

Only 10 of the 50 hours X/C hours must be in an airplane, the rest can be in a helicopter. The 15 hours of instrument training must be in an airplane. 61.63 is quite clear about what you need. If you're not sure how his time in the military was logged, look at it. Ask him if you have questions about it.

[Ian J]

I was in this exact situation.

All of Ralgha's info is correct... all his military time counts. Also, since he already has an instrument rating, he does not need to take a knowledge test. He does need the 10 x-cntry hours in an airplane (PIC) and 15 hours of instruction in an airplane, as well as the 250 nm cross-country. I'm sure he has the other required 40 x-cnty PIC hours... you get that in flight school. And he should already have the 40 hours of sim or actual inst time.

As for this part: (b) Aeronautical knowledge. A person who applies for an instrument rating must have received and logged ground training from an authorized instructor or accomplished a home-study course on the following aeronautical knowledge areas that apply to the instrument rating sought: he already has this training. You may want to focus on airplane specifics from part 91. I would suggest oral quizzing of his knowledge as a basis for this requirement.

I would suggest focusing heavily on the 1-2-3 rule (different rules in the military) SVFR rules (also different), alternate minimums (doesn't apply to military) and use of VORs and ADFs in instrument flight (we have HSIs) and DME arcs (don't have these).

Hope this helps.

[SpaceShipOne]

Thanks for the help guys

[Flyingbug]

I am not sure abut this, but can you get your CFII as your initial instructor rating?... and teach I.R without having a CFI rating and then progress on to MEI without ever having to do the CFI.

The reason I am asking this, I just wrote the Instrument written for the commercial...the material is still fresh in my mind and was thinking of going ahead and writing the CFII written. I am almost done my commercial and was wondering if i could start my CFII training right away after Com.ASEL/MEL/I.R

Thanks in advance.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Flyingbug

I am not sure abut this, but can you get your CFII as your initial instructor rating?... and teach I.R without having a CFI rating and then progress on to MEI without ever having to do the CFI.

First, word police. A CFI is a =certificate=, not a rating. Just like a pilot certificate, a CFI certificate has its ratings printed on the back. It's not just semantics. The difference really matters.

But, to answer the first part of your question, yes. Your first CFI certificate can be a CFI certificate with an "instrument airplane" rating rather than an "airplane single engine" or "airplane multi-engine" rating.

But you may find yourself limited to teaching in FTDs and simulators. This is one of the few real disputed areas in the regs. The applicable regs are 61.195(b) and (c):

==============================
§ 61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:
(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and
(2) If appropriate, a type rating.
(c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided
==============================

Even though 61.195(b) seems pretty clear, there are two schools of thought within the FAA about whether a CFI-IA who does not have a CFI aircraft category and class rating may teach in an aircraft. An FAA regional Legal opinion says no; the now-defunct Part 61 FAQ said yes. At one point the author of the FAQ admitted he was probably wrong, but the FAQ went away without ever being corrected (among all of the errors in the FAQ, I have a feeling that this is the one that broke the proverbial camel's back). Unfortunately, the FAA has not seen fit to clarify it once and for all.

[Flyingbug]

Thanks Midlife and ralgha....for the insight. I guess, there is no escaping doing the CFI and the CFII.