PCATD, FTD, Commercial

[caliginousface]

Hey all! Well, i'm looking for ways to save money on Commercial, and browsing the FAR's I haven't found much.

I have 10 hours in a PCATD for my instrument ticket that I logged under part 61. The place I fly at now has a FAA Approved Frasca 141. To my understanding 50 hours can be counted towards the Commercial, but the time in the PCATD does not. Also, the time logged in the FTD is under the "Simulator" column only, and not logged as total time. Is all that correct?

So for example, let's say I have 225TT, 20 hours of Frasca 141 love, and 5 hours PCATD from the instrument training, I am still 5 hours short, right?

All help appreciated!

[JEP]

sounds about right!

[AlexF]

Originally Posted by JEP

sounds about right!

OK, I'm confused now. My FBO has a PCATD, that is using ASA ontop. How can that be logged? The reason I'm asking is my instructor logged it under sim instrument time, total time, and duration of flight! Thanks

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by AlexF

OK, I'm confused now. My FBO has a PCATD, that is using ASA ontop. How can that be logged? The reason I'm asking is my instructor logged it under sim instrument time, total time, and duration of flight! Thanks

Noting logged in any simulator, FTD or PCATD is "flight" time. Period. If you want the long explanation, I'll be happy to post it, but you can see it for your self if you look at the definitions of "flight time" and "aircraft" in the FAR.

So, there is no way that PCATD time fits into =any= logbook column that counts your "flight time" (you actually have a logbook with both a "total time" and a "total duration of flight" column? If you do, it adds a wrinkle).

Whether or not Sim, FTD or PCATD it's logged as simulated instrument involves a bit of choice about how you want to organize your logbook. The regs say that instrument time is an Sim or FTD (not necessarily a PCATD) may be counted as simulated instrument time. But some folks never log any time in a sim/ftd/or pcatd in the simulated instrument column for purely practical reasons. If you lump them all together with hood time, you will have to review everything when you fill anything asking for instrument "flight time" since hood time is "flight time" and sim/FTD time is not. You'll also note that they are counted separately on the 8710

[AlexF]

Thanks midlifeflyer, I appreciate your response. However, I was talking with a few instructors and I keep on getting different answers. Everyone agrees you can log the time in the Flight Training Device column. Some say you can also log it in the sim instrument column, some say you can log it in the flight training column, and others say you can log it under ASEL column. This shouldn't be soo hard but it's confusing the heck out of me. Could you please give your input on this? Cause when I have 101.7 hours as ASEL and 100.1 hours in total duration of flight, it just seems plain wrong!
Thanks

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by AlexF

Thanks midlifeflyer, I appreciate your response. However, I was talking with a few instructors and I keep on getting different answers. Everyone agrees you can log the time in the Flight Training Device column. Some say you can also log it in the sim instrument column, some say you can log it in the flight training column, and others say you can log it under ASEL column. This shouldn't be soo hard but it's confusing the heck out of me. Could you please give your input on this? Cause when I have 101.7 hours as ASEL and 100.1 hours in total duration of flight, it just seems plain wrong!
Thanks

Unfortunately, there is a bunch of confusion on this among CFIs. You'll see the question come up repeatedly on some boards. But, the ASEL column is for flight time in an "airplane" single engine land.

Flight training? That's like simulated instrument. How do you want to deal with adding up for applications and 8710s?

Your biggest problem as a pilot taking instruction is when different instructors view it differently. That's a real mess and it's one of the time you have to take control of =your= logbook and decide how you want to use the columns within the guidelines of the FAR. Especially with sim time, when someone comes to me who's had prior instruction, I either ask or try to figure out how they approach logging it. As I tried to explain, there are multiple ways of dealing with it =within= the way the FAR deals with it.

But counting it as "total flight time" or ASEL is contrary to the FAR.

Here's the definition of "airplane" from FAR 1:

==============================
Airplane means an engine driven fixed wing aircraft heavier than air, that is supported in flight by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings.
==============================

I dodn't know about you, but every sim or FTD I've ever seen has been firmly supported by a ground-based platform.

I forgot earlier, but the question of sim/ftd time is in one of the FAQ posts on my website. It really deals with the "total time" issue, but the basics are there. See if this helps a bit:

http://www.midlifeflight.com/faq/faq.php?s=2#12