Retraining after a gear up

LostComm · April 4th, 2006, 21:09

I'm scheduled with a pilot who landed gear up. He's been required by his insurance to get five hours of dual-the implication is of course that it's on landing gear operations.

Anyone have any good ideas for this scenario?

-LC

fish314 · April 4th, 2006, 22:19

Maybe try to interrupt his concentration while he's running the pattern checklists? And teach him to always perform a configuration check on final (or crossing the DH or something?) Just ideas...

Honestly, though, I don't think this is the sort of thing that a person can forget TWICE in one lifetime. If the experience of landing gear up didn't make an impression enough that he never does it again, I don't know how much good you're going to be able to do, no matter HOW good an instructor you are....

Timbuff10 · April 4th, 2006, 22:38

I would say to take him to several nearby airports doing just one landing at each one. If you just do touch and goes, it is repetitive and too easy. Perhaps shoot an approach or two if he is instrument rated. Just make sure and leave the vacinity of the airport each time though.

jrh · April 5th, 2006, 00:37

Maybe talk to him about the human factors of why gear extension can be forgotten, then show methods of preventing incidents. For instance, most of us know that the gear is forgotten when we get thrown into an unusual, maybe stressful situation. But what can be done to make it more likely to be remembered?

Doing things the same way every time makes a big difference. Have him set up some rules for himself that will make him lower the gear every time. Lower it upon reaching pattern altitude, lower it whenever he is cleared to land, lower it upon entering the pattern, I don't know...whenever he thinks is easiest and most practical, but then get him to stick to it. Also, have him verbalize that he's lowering the gear, like announcing, "Entering downwind, gear down," or, "Cleared to land, gear down." By using the auditory senses he's less likely to forget it.

Also, you could have him physically hold his hand on the gear extension handle until he sees the three green lights to confirm everything is extended. By "pausing" from the flight and physically doing something unusual while the gear is in transition, it places a greater emphasis on lowering the gear. Once he gets used to having a dead quiet part of the flight while waiting for the gear to come down, he'll feel out of place by doing things quickly, and potentially missing the gear, when he gets thrown into unusual circumstances.

Of course, I'm with fish314 on this one...it's highly unlikely that he'll make this mistake twice, no matter if he is retrained or not.

MidlifeFlyer · April 5th, 2006, 09:18

I'd start by asking questions in two areas:

1. Why does =he= think he landed gear up?
2. What are his standard procedures for gear extension and retraction?

Those are designed to tell you how the incident happened, the pilots thought process, and whether the incident was due to inadequate procedures. Essentially, you're trying to troubleshoot the problem and develop a solution that fits it.

bob loblaw · April 5th, 2006, 12:07

I have seen a person forget to lower the gear twice in a lifetime. Older people are more prone to this as was evident by the senior gentleman who geared up his Mooney twice.

Nick · April 5th, 2006, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish314

I don't think this is the sort of thing that a person can forget TWICE in one lifetime.

I agree and think there is definitely some truth to that.

One additional thing you could train him to look at during landing and in the pattern is the power setting. If, abeam the number, he always reduces power to the same RPM and puts the gear down at that spot, the speed should be unusually high on final since there'll be less drag. That should be a cue (besides the gear horn!?!).

I'd concentrate on having him make configuration changes at the same point in the pattern (or on an approach) every time.

And some sort of a checklist.

MSNFlyer · April 5th, 2006, 19:48

The best way I have found to avoid a lapse in attention is having my complex students hold their hand on the gear lever until they see and say gear down. If they don't they hear about it from me. I also have them do about 3 or 4 GUMPS checks in different landing phases. Every landing will be different (controlled vs. uncontrolled, extended patterns, straight ins, instrument approaches, etc.) but if they are in the habit of doing that simple checklist a couple of times around the airport that will go a long way to avoiding further accidents.

I like the distraction approach for this person as well.

April 4th, 2006, 21:09	#1
LostComm Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 203	Retraining after a gear up I'm scheduled with a pilot who landed gear up. He's been required by his insurance to get five hours of dual-the implication is of course that it's on landing gear operations. Anyone have any good ideas for this scenario? -LC

April 4th, 2006, 22:19	#2
fish314 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: (CBM) Columbus AFB, MS Posts: 1,280	Maybe try to interrupt his concentration while he's running the pattern checklists? And teach him to always perform a configuration check on final (or crossing the DH or something?) Just ideas... Honestly, though, I don't think this is the sort of thing that a person can forget TWICE in one lifetime. If the experience of landing gear up didn't make an impression enough that he never does it again, I don't know how much good you're going to be able to do, no matter HOW good an instructor you are.... __________________ Dude, what are you trying to do? Land the airplane or adjust the field elevation?

April 4th, 2006, 22:38	#3
Timbuff10 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Coloradan in Orange County, CA Posts: 3,235	I would say to take him to several nearby airports doing just one landing at each one. If you just do touch and goes, it is repetitive and too easy. Perhaps shoot an approach or two if he is instrument rated. Just make sure and leave the vacinity of the airport each time though. __________________ My Photography My Airliners.net photos

April 5th, 2006, 09:18	#5
MidlifeFlyer Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 3,031	I'd start by asking questions in two areas: 1. Why does =he= think he landed gear up? 2. What are his standard procedures for gear extension and retraction? Those are designed to tell you how the incident happened, the pilots thought process, and whether the incident was due to inadequate procedures. Essentially, you're trying to troubleshoot the problem and develop a solution that fits it. __________________ Mark www.midlifeflight.com "I don't understand" doesn't mean it's gray

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April 5th, 2006, 00:37	#4
jrh Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,744	Maybe talk to him about the human factors of why gear extension can be forgotten, then show methods of preventing incidents. For instance, most of us know that the gear is forgotten when we get thrown into an unusual, maybe stressful situation. But what can be done to make it more likely to be remembered? Doing things the same way every time makes a big difference. Have him set up some rules for himself that will make him lower the gear every time. Lower it upon reaching pattern altitude, lower it whenever he is cleared to land, lower it upon entering the pattern, I don't know...whenever he thinks is easiest and most practical, but then get him to stick to it. Also, have him verbalize that he's lowering the gear, like announcing, "Entering downwind, gear down," or, "Cleared to land, gear down." By using the auditory senses he's less likely to forget it. Also, you could have him physically hold his hand on the gear extension handle until he sees the three green lights to confirm everything is extended. By "pausing" from the flight and physically doing something unusual while the gear is in transition, it places a greater emphasis on lowering the gear. Once he gets used to having a dead quiet part of the flight while waiting for the gear to come down, he'll feel out of place by doing things quickly, and potentially missing the gear, when he gets thrown into unusual circumstances. Of course, I'm with fish314 on this one...it's highly unlikely that he'll make this mistake twice, no matter if he is retrained or not.

April 5th, 2006, 12:07	#6
bob loblaw Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 630	I have seen a person forget to lower the gear twice in a lifetime. Older people are more prone to this as was evident by the senior gentleman who geared up his Mooney twice.

April 5th, 2006, 19:48	#8
MSNFlyer Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 99	The best way I have found to avoid a lapse in attention is having my complex students hold their hand on the gear lever until they see and say gear down. If they don't they hear about it from me. I also have them do about 3 or 4 GUMPS checks in different landing phases. Every landing will be different (controlled vs. uncontrolled, extended patterns, straight ins, instrument approaches, etc.) but if they are in the habit of doing that simple checklist a couple of times around the airport that will go a long way to avoiding further accidents. I like the distraction approach for this person as well.